gbaba speculation

Also remember that Safe hold is located about 10 000ly from Earth, so it'd take ten millennia for radio signals from Safe hold to reach Gbaba space.

hanuman wrote:Also remember that Safe hold is located about 10 000ly from Earth, so it'd take ten millennia for radio signals from Safe hold to reach Gbaba space.

Add in the fact that unless those signals had been produced with multi-megawatt transmitters, they would have faded into the backgound noise long before they got there.

Don

I have 500 light years stuck in my memory. What's the definitive answer?

I don't think there is one, but the lower figure is a better match for the evidence.

Expert snuggler wrote:I have 500 light years stuck in my memory. What's the definitive answer?

Thanks for refreshing my memory, etc. and I agree with at least some of what you're saying. However, the whole idea behind Safehold was to prevent technology so that the Gbaba wouldn't find us, so I'm not sure I'm willing to just assume they are so far away they won't notice us until we're ready. And assuming we're 500 ly from earth, that doesn't necessarily mean we're 500 ly further from Gbaba space. I'm not sure we even know what Gbaba space covers.

TBird50 wrote:Thanks for refreshing my memory, etc. and I agree with at least some of what you're saying. However, the whole idea behind Safehold was to prevent technology so that the Gbaba wouldn't find us, so I'm not sure I'm willing to just assume they are so far away they won't notice us until we're ready. And assuming we're 500 ly from earth, that doesn't necessarily mean we're 500 ly further from Gbaba space. I'm not sure we even know what Gbaba space covers.

Actually, it was to remain at a low tech level for 4-5 hundred years, with Alexandria and another enclave as technology reservoirs, and the former fleet hiding in the asteroid belt, powered down as examples of terran technology which would be used to measure the current Safeholdian standard of technology. It was stated in the prelude to OAR that another 50 years would have given the TF the time to develop the weaponry to defeat the Gbaba and that if Safeholdian tech could reach that much further than TF tech reached, they would be able to defeat the Gbaba.

From what David Weber has said, the early "low tech" period was to prevent Safehold from being spotted by Gbaba scouts who were searching for Terran Colonies that had escaped destruction. The idea being that the Gbaba couldn't be sure that they had destroyed all of the Project Ark ships so they would be searching far outside their territory.

The original plan was (as has been mentioned) to use the hidden technology to first bring all of Safehold to Terran Federation tech levels, to begin research into more advanced technology along with settling Earth-like worlds near Safehold. Later, this Safehold Federation would try for a rematch against the Gbaba.

However, Langhorne decided that it would be better to prevent the rise of high tech on Safehold so that mankind would never encounter the Gbaba again. David Weber has said that the ban on electric generation was not to prevent the Gbaba from detecting Safehold but to prevent high tech from developing on Safehold.

For that matter, David Weber has stated that the Terran Federation believed that the Gbaba found the Federation thanks to Gbaba "listening posts" and/or Gbaba starships visiting the region containing the Federation. He pointed out that the Federation knew (thanks to the destroyed alien civilizations) that the Gbaba had visited that region of space before. David Weber was clear that the Gbaba had not picked up early Earth radio signals. It was the existence of Terran starships in an area of space that the Gbaba periodically checked and/or had listening posts in.

Also, the earlier "hidden" colony destroyed by the Gbaba was found by Gbaba scout ships looking for it that had detected the Terran Federation high tech.

TBird50 wrote:Thanks for refreshing my memory, etc. and I agree with at least some of what you're saying. However, the whole idea behind Safehold was to prevent technology so that the Gbaba wouldn't find us, so I'm not sure I'm willing to just assume they are so far away they won't notice us until we're ready. And assuming we're 500 ly from earth, that doesn't necessarily mean we're 500 ly further from Gbaba space. I'm not sure we even know what Gbaba space covers.

DrakBibliophile wrote:From what David Weber has said, the early "low tech" period was to prevent Safehold from being spotted by Gbaba scouts who were searching for Terran Colonies that had escaped destruction. The idea being that the Gbaba couldn't be sure that they had destroyed all of the Project Ark ships so they would be searching far outside their territory.

The original plan was (as has been mentioned) to use the hidden technology to first bring all of Safehold to Terran Federation tech levels, to begin research into more advanced technology along with settling Earth-like worlds near Safehold. Later, this Safehold Federation would try for a rematch against the Gbaba.

However, Langhorne decided that it would be better to prevent the rise of high tech on Safehold so that mankind would never encounter the Gbaba again. David Weber has said that the ban on electric generation was not to prevent the Gbaba from detecting Safehold but to prevent high tech from developing on Safehold.

For that matter, David Weber has stated that the Terran Federation believed that the Gbaba found the Federation thanks to Gbaba "listening posts" and/or Gbaba starships visiting the region containing the Federation. He pointed out that the Federation knew (thanks to the destroyed alien civilizations) that the Gbaba had visited that region of space before. David Weber was clear that the Gbaba had not picked up early Earth radio signals. It was the existence of Terran starships in an area of space that the Gbaba periodically checked and/or had listening posts in.

Also, the earlier "hidden" colony destroyed by the Gbaba was found by Gbaba scout ships looking for it that had detected the Terran Federation high tech.

TBird50 wrote:Thanks for refreshing my memory, etc. and I agree with at least some of what you're saying. However, the whole idea behind Safehold was to prevent technology so that the Gbaba wouldn't find us, so I'm not sure I'm willing to just assume they are so far away they won't notice us until we're ready. And assuming we're 500 ly from earth, that doesn't necessarily mean we're 500 ly further from Gbaba space. I'm not sure we even know what Gbaba space covers.

Thank you, and that really helps my understanding of things. But I'm still not sure it totally addresses my concerns. I agree that Earth was found by the Gbaba and that they had visited that area before, but it doesn't say how big the area is that the Gbaba patrol. Plus if they can send scout ships to various parts of space to check on things, why can't they expand their area? It's hard for me to believe that they would just stop at some imaginary line and say OK we won't go beyond here. (And even if that were true, your first paragraph states that the Gbaba would be searching far outside their territory.) So I still don't see how we can be sure that we can get to the level of technology to be able to fight them before they spot us. On the other hand it is DW's world and he can do whatever he wants with/to it.

Tonto Silerheels wrote:TBird50 wrote:

How did they get the name? Is that something the Fed just decided to call them?

Yes.

How will it be any different when we meet the Gbaba again?

Safehold will have much better technology than the Gbaba. The Gbaba will have nearly the same technology they had last time they met humans, and will be in nearly the same volume of space.

I haven't seen anything whereby we have any new ideas on how to combat them?

Those will have to be invented.

How are we sure that we can even advance to our previous level without attracting the Gbaba before we're ready? We're going to need things like electricity, nuclear fusion, space craft, etc. and I wouldn't think that we can just hope the Gbaba won't spot us.

The Gbaba won't spot us because they're a long ways away and aren't especially looking for us.

~Tonto

Thanks for your help in understanding things. However, in a later post DrakBibliophile states that Gbaba scouts were searching for Terran Colonies that had escaped destruction, so to me that says that they are looking for us.

BTW, I noticed your username doesn't have a V in it. IIRC, TLR's sidekick was called Tonto played by Jay Silverheels. I assume you knew that, and that you have a reason so I was just wondering. Kind of like people wondering about my TBird50 when the thunderbird hadn't been made yet in 50. Anyway, thanks again.

TBird50 wrote:Thanks for your help in understanding things. However, in a later post DrakBibliophile states that Gbaba scouts were searching for Terran Colonies that had escaped destruction, so to me that says that they are looking for us.

Doing something somewhat does not imply doing something forever. If I can't find that DVD in my house in 2 hours, I may or may not be looking in 4, and I will probably not still be looking in 30 years.

Just what the Terran Federation knew about the Gbaba and how isn't exhaustively detailed. The Gbaba likely could have found humanity hundreds or thousands of years earlier had they been looking for lost colonies of (e.g.) their last interstellar enemies since they theoretically wiped them out, but did not. They're apparently not Achuultani, forever sweeping for potential threats as far out as they can practically range, or Arachnids, always if slowly expanding outward and wiping out whatever they come across and whatever comes across a cloaked picket.

Just what data or calculations rendered Safehold's location judged to be so safe that no foreseeable Gbaba scouting or expansion would get there in 500+ years under the original plan or practically ever under Langhorne's, I don't know. But we can assume that some such figuring was done by constructively and possibly clinically paranoid sorts and delivered Safehold as safe.