Merlin can't assassinate Clyntahn.

Expert snuggler wrote:

Fascinating thought. Wasn't there imagery of Gwylym spitting in his face?

I had always assumed that was an artist's conception based on descriptions provided by Adorai Dennys.

~Tonto

JeffEngel wrote:

I do wonder, in that regard, how well directional microphones and long-range SNARC observation may be able to observe the Temple exterior, from a range sufficient to evade Terran Federation systems in it.

I recall a video system was put into place to monitor people leaving the Temple for the purpose of identifying potential Rakurai agents.

~Tonto

Also, remotes operating near the Temple are operating autonomously. Which is to say, they're not under direct remote control to cut down on comm traffic that might be detected. Remotes are basically given instructions on what to do before going into the No Comm Zone around the Temple, and then leave the zone before getting back in contact with OWL.

Not very likely - Adorai had been in Charis for a couple of years at that point.

Like others, I'm pretty sure the image was picked up by a remote.

There never seems to have been any issue running remotes outside the walls of the Temple itself. The question has always been 'how close can a PICA come without setting off alarms?'. Merlin himself isn't particularly stealthy, and it's not likely that Nimue is much if any more so. PICAs simply aren't battlefield technology.

Tonto Silerheels wrote:Expert snuggler wrote:

Fascinating thought. Wasn't there imagery of Gwylym spitting in his face?

I had always assumed that was an artist's conception based on descriptions provided by Adorai Dennys.

~Tonto

** Spoilers **

In HFAF, it is stated that Merlin had a remote pickup set to record from a distance the scene in the Plaza of Martyrs and that it where they got the shot Gwyllym Mantyr's last act of defiance for their broadsheets. So everyone in the Inner Circle knows what Clyntahn looks like.

But Merlin's problem is both technical and moral. So long as Clyntahn cowers behind the Temple's "mystical" walls, Merlin cannot get to him without risking potential detection by whatever security systems are set up in the place. And then there's the question whether or not Clyntahn could be assassinated without it looking like it was done with "Shan-wei's foul arts" - especially now that Rayno has finally concluded that the Fist of God has been assisted by "demons". But the biggest problem is the possible consequences of such an assassination. Will Clyntahn's death end the Jihad? Even Helm Clever knows that they'd have to get both him and Rayno if they want to avoid a bloodbath in Zion. And if both of them die, will the other members of the Go4 be able to move their people in quickly enough to neutralize whoever might succeed both? Then there is the inevitable outrage that would be sparked by the death of a consecrated Vicar (despite the low opinion reader might have, to the majority of Safeholdians they are the "princes of Mother Church", anointed by God himself to rule).

Moreover, Clyntahn's crime are so horrendous at this point, that death is too good a fate for him. Charis would be better served putting him on trial and either having him publicly executed or else imprisoned with the "Seijins" for the rest of his life. The latter course would actually have some advantages, as he would be available in future to prove to everyone how truly crazy he was.

thanatos wrote:** Spoilers **

In HFAF, it is stated that Merlin had a remote pickup set to record from a distance the scene in the Plaza of Martyrs and that it where they got the shot Gwyllym Mantyr's last act of defiance for their broadsheets. So everyone in the Inner Circle knows what Clyntahn looks like.

But Merlin's problem is both technical and moral. So long as Clyntahn cowers behind the Temple's "mystical" walls, Merlin cannot get to him without risking potential detection by whatever security systems are set up in the place. And then there's the question whether or not Clyntahn could be assassinated without it looking like it was done with "Shan-wei's foul arts" - especially now that Rayno has finally concluded that the Fist of God has been assisted by "demons". But the biggest problem is the possible consequences of such an assassination. Will Clyntahn's death end the Jihad? Even Helm Clever knows that they'd have to get both him and Rayno if they want to avoid a bloodbath in Zion. And if both of them die, will the other members of the Go4 be able to move their people in quickly enough to neutralize whoever might succeed both? Then there is the inevitable outrage that would be sparked by the death of a consecrated Vicar (despite the low opinion reader might have, to the majority of Safeholdians they are the "princes of Mother Church", anointed by God himself to rule).

Moreover, Clyntahn's crime are so horrendous at this point, that death is too good a fate for him. Charis would be better served putting him on trial and either having him publicly executed or else imprisoned with the "Seijins" for the rest of his life. The latter course would actually have some advantages, as he would be available in future to prove to everyone how truly crazy he was.

Nynian wants to dance in Clyntahn's blood after the emperor removes his head. It is a picturesqe scene, but I doubt that she'll get that chance. Someone is going to do the deed before Cayleb gets a hand on him.

Don

Still spoilers -

thanatos wrote:** Spoilers **

In HFAF, it is stated that Merlin had a remote pickup set to record from a distance the scene in the Plaza of Martyrs and that it where they got the shot Gwyllym Mantyr's last act of defiance for their broadsheets. So everyone in the Inner Circle knows what Clyntahn looks like.

But Merlin's problem is both technical and moral. So long as Clyntahn cowers behind the Temple's "mystical" walls, Merlin cannot get to him without risking potential detection by whatever security systems are set up in the place. And then there's the question whether or not Clyntahn could be assassinated without it looking like it was done with "Shan-wei's foul arts" - especially now that Rayno has finally concluded that the Fist of God has been assisted by "demons". But the biggest problem is the possible consequences of such an assassination. Will Clyntahn's death end the Jihad? Even Helm Clever knows that they'd have to get both him and Rayno if they want to avoid a bloodbath in Zion. And if both of them die, will the other members of the Go4 be able to move their people in quickly enough to neutralize whoever might succeed both? Then there is the inevitable outrage that would be sparked by the death of a consecrated Vicar (despite the low opinion reader might have, to the majority of Safeholdians they are the "princes of Mother Church", anointed by God himself to rule).

Moreover, Clyntahn's crime are so horrendous at this point, that death is too good a fate for him. Charis would be better served putting him on trial and either having him publicly executed or else imprisoned with the "Seijins" for the rest of his life. The latter course would actually have some advantages, as he would be available in future to prove to everyone how truly crazy he was.

Given Clyntahn's purge of the vicarate on trumped-up and not-universally-believed charges, the revelation in the broadsheets of all the crimes committed by his allies in the vicarate, and the fact that, as you note, his own crimes have been so horrendous, I doubt there will be any outrage from anyone but the vilest Clyntahn loyalists about him being offed.

His death is not likely to turn off the jihad though. It's got momentum, and as many decent and devoted people see it, it's being fought on behalf of God's plan for Safehold and the united, universal, authoritative Mother Church that demands. His death would likely make the jihad fought much, much more decently, without war crimes as policy on the Temple side, and much more competently. It may mean the Temple could recover moral high ground, or at least get within shouting distance. People who aren't either thoughtless about the bigger issues (Magwair) or simply incapable of engaging on a moral level (Rayno, possibly Trynair) would be able to take pride in Mother Church again, and fight for her. People who never wanted anything but to reform her - almost everyone outside the Inner Circle - will hate having to fight her anymore and will lose enthusiasm.

Clyntahn is doing more than anyone else on Safehold to break Mother Church's hold on people's loyalties. He's the stick; Maikel Staynair is the carrot. (Alternatively: having to oppose the Saint of Tellesberg is a stick; getting to stick it to the Monster of Zion is a carrot.) Merlin assassinating Clyntahn would represent a terrible betrayal of his mission, even while it would represent a basic moral imperative in so many other ways.

He has said he will do so the instant he gets a clear shot, but you're right about the effect on his mission. It would be like rescuing the children from the kraken.

Expert snuggler wrote:He has said he will do so the instant he gets a clear shot, but you're right about the effect on his mission. It would be like rescuing the children from the kraken.

Worse, in some ways. Rescuing the children from the kraken risked being exposed as something he could not sell as "merely" a seijin. That may have meant having to scrap the whole Merlin identity and starting over somehow, likely with a very different approach. What it would have done for Charis' attitude and prospects doesn't bear thinking on.

Still though, all that was only a risk. Killing Clyntahn gives him practically a certainty of the CoGA and the Proscriptions recovering people's loyalty and total acceptance. A jihad without atrocities could lead to detente or even the recovery of a reformed CoGA as a universal church.

Now, killing Clyntahn when the jihad is certainly, clearly lost, with Zion utterly discredited as a planetary capital and national sovereignty and religious freedom on at least a national level established as a principle and expectation, that's something else. If it gets to the point where the only thing keeping the Vicarate from pursuing peace on terms like that is Zhaspyr Clyntahn continuing to live, the mission won't argue for letting him do that anymore. But right now, not even the readers know if that's a state of mind Duchairn and Magwair would be in and would feel able to make stick with Trynair, the Grand Vicar, the rump Vicarate, and conservative monarchs and their cabinets. They can't breathe a word of such thoughts, and if they did, it'd almost certainly be inside the Temple anyway. (Though I do have to wonder what momentous exchange Duchairn and Magwair could pack into 60 seconds when they could be absolutely sure they're out of anyone else's earshot.)

Wouldn't it be an ironic twist if someone was about to off Clyntahn and Merlin had to step in for strategic reasons and save his life?