Grayson Katana Design

Longtime Lurker in the Grass (not my Treecat name ), first time poster. First of all, a HUGE fan of everything RFC has created, Honorverse, The Apocalypse Troll, Dahak, Empire of Man, etc...

That said, I do have a wee bit of criticism about the design of the "Grayson Katana" from the standpoint of a former fencer & student of sword design in general. My critique of the design of the sword is in one part only. The Quillions.
The quillions on any sword (those that have them, & some do not) are the "bars" that project from the guard of the sword, on the Grayson Katana in House Of Steel's illustration section, the quillions are HORIZONTALLY oriented. On any other sword, be it a western broadsword, chinese Jian,etc... the quillions are always oriented VERTICALLY to the blade.

This is important when wearing a sword on belt, or as in the case of a Japanese Katana, stuck thru a sash; because the vertically oriented quillions won't jab you in the gut like in the drawings in HOS. I'm sure the drawing was done that way for dramatic and artistic license' sake, but from a practical standpoint, in simply wearing the sword, very impractical and likely uncomfortable.

Rocket88 wrote:Longtime Lurker in the Grass (not my Treecat name ), first time poster. First of all, a HUGE fan of everything RFC has created, Honorverse, The Apocalypse Troll, Dahak, Empire of Man, etc...

That said, I do have a wee bit of criticism about the design of the "Grayson Katana" from the standpoint of a former fencer & student of sword design in general. My critique of the design of the sword is in one part only. The Quillions.
The quillions on any sword (those that have them, & some do not) are the "bars" that project from the guard of the sword, on the Grayson Katana in House Of Steel's illustration section, the quillions are HORIZONTALLY oriented. On any other sword, be it a western broadsword, chinese Jian,etc... the quillions are always oriented VERTICALLY to the blade.

This is important when wearing a sword on belt, or as in the case of a Japanese Katana, stuck thru a sash; because the vertically oriented quillions won't jab you in the gut like in the drawings in HOS. I'm sure the drawing was done that way for dramatic and artistic license' sake, but from a practical standpoint, in simply wearing the sword, very impractical and likely uncomfortable.

Hi Rocket. Welcome to the forums. Pull up a chair and have a beer on us. Though we're fresh out of Old Tilmans at the mo. Hope you enjoy the forums.

Thanks for that info. I remember another forumite's contribution in that area in which you may be interested. It was certainly interesting to me...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1374

Welcome too.

I wonder how many regulars here saw this thread and thought it was going to be about the Katana LAC? I know I did, which is why horizonal vs vertical quillions flew right over my head.

munroburton wrote:Welcome too.

I wonder how many regulars here saw this thread and thought it was going to be about the Katana LAC? I know I did, which is why horizonal vs vertical quillions flew right over my head.

Munroburton - thanks for the welcome! Sorry about any misdirection re: the KATANA - class LAC, which needs no critique, IMHO it's a perfect space superiority ship.

Cthia - thanks also for the welcome! I did remember Temmy's superior post re: the Burdette-Harrington Duel, I thought the poster was spot on! Question: did Temmy ever receive the HONOR-ary (pun intended)title of "Swordmaster"?

Rocket88 wrote:

munroburton wrote:Welcome too.

I wonder how many regulars here saw this thread and thought it was going to be about the Katana LAC? I know I did, which is why horizonal vs vertical quillions flew right over my head.

Munroburton - thanks for the welcome! Sorry about any misdirection re: the KATANA - class LAC, which needs no critique, IMHO it's a perfect space superiority ship.

Cthia - thanks also for the welcome! I did remember Temmy's superior post re: the Burdette-Harrington Duel, I thought the poster was spot on! Question: did Temmy ever receive the HONOR-ary (pun intended)title of "Swordmaster"?

You are quite welcome. You are new DNA to the intellectual jeans pool. Though women are welcome too.

Well, it was before my time on the forums. But I move to motion.

The way the Grayson swords are described, I'd consider them more of a saber or cutlass than a katana. As I recall, the blade is sharpened for several inches along the spine, which would horrify any self-respecting samurai. He'd consider it no better than a long bayonet.
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Leo Bloom: "Well, if we assume that you're a completely dishonest person..."
Max Bialystock: "Assume, assume!"

Imaginos1892 wrote:The way the Grayson swords are described, I'd consider them more of a saber or cutlass than a katana. As I recall, the blade is sharpened for several inches along the spine, which would horrify any self-respecting samurai. He'd consider it no better than a long bayonet.
------------------
Leo Bloom: "Well, if we assume that you're a completely dishonest person..."
Max Bialystock: "Assume, assume!"

Imaginos1892 - Yes, any 15th - 19th century Samurai would not see the Grayson "Katana" sword as a recognizable Katana, Wakizashi or any other sword contemporary to his time. Not only the sharpened 1/3 of the back of the blade, but the design of the "Tsuba" (guard) - without quillions of any kind - (horizontal or vertical), the lack of any "Menuki" (decorative emblems or tokens wrapped into the hilt or "Tsuka"). The Christian motif (Cross at the pommel) would have been seen as offensive to a Buddhist Samurai. I know the intent was to "westernize" an Eastern weapon for a group of Christianized people who emigrated to a planet with very little historical reference for swordfighting other than the classic VHS (!!!) film "The Seven Samurai". I would think, that if Grayson had "regressed" so far technically into a state of "neo-barbarism" that they needed to re-invent swordfighting, that they would have re-invented a WEARABLE sword. The horizontal hand-guard "quillions" would make the sword eminently un-comfortable to wear and use. If the Graysons had regressed this far, I think that if they wanted a personal weapon to wear, they would have made it wearable.

The single edged slashing sword was a step most military cultures went through, then they evolved into designs that were more useful. Japan not changing had a bunch of cultural and actual tactical reasons, none of which would apply to Grayson.

kzt wrote:The single edged slashing sword was a step most military cultures went through, then they evolved into designs that were more useful. Japan not changing had a bunch of cultural and actual tactical reasons, none of which would apply to Grayson.

But Grayson is rather stubborn (understatement of the week ), so they may have decided to stick with their imitation katana's, whether they were useful & functional or not.

And also look how long it took for Grayson to even start adapting to the information Manticore brought with it. It took Honor training with the sword herself (and the second highest ranking sword master), for the beginning of comparisons and change to even begin. And said sword master looking at true Kendo, not just the created Grayson version, and thinking how he can incorporate dual wielding, and form changes to win the championship.

Rocket88 wrote:This is important when wearing a sword on belt, or as in the case of a Japanese Katana, stuck thru a sash; because the vertically oriented quillions won't jab you in the gut like in the drawings in HOS.

I was under the impression that true Katana's didn't have any quillions at all. They were always in a scabbard that just about exactly fit the blade, and were always belted (or at least on a ribbon that served as a 'belt'). Unlike more Western blades, which needed the quillions not just as a hand guard, but to anchor the blade when thrust through the belt if it wasn't scabbarded.

Katana's without the guard could be said to be similar to Star Wars lightsabers of the original trilogy. Darth Vader vs Obi-Wan on the first Death Star, Luke vs Darth (pick any of the fights), or even some of the unmentionable fights during the prequels (non-Dooku anyways). No quillions to protect the wielders fingers and hand, they used elaborate and practical disengages and parries to protect the hand.

Any sword wielding fighter with training should know how to handle the interlocked blades and rely on skill not quillions to protect their hand. At least in the more highly trained and practiced Samurai, as compared to a European noble who more typically played at sword fighting anyways.

Rocket88 wrote:Imaginos1892 - Yes, any 15th - 19th century Samurai would not see the Grayson "Katana" sword as a recognizable Katana, Wakizashi or any other sword contemporary to his time. Not only the sharpened 1/3 of the back of the blade, but the design of the "Tsuba" (guard) - without quillions of any kind - (horizontal or vertical), the lack of any "Menuki" (decorative emblems or tokens wrapped into the hilt or "Tsuka"). The Christian motif (Cross at the pommel) would have been seen as offensive to a Buddhist Samurai. I know the intent was to "westernize" an Eastern weapon for a group of Christianized people who emigrated to a planet with very little historical reference for swordfighting other than the classic VHS (!!!) film "The Seven Samurai". I would think, that if Grayson had "regressed" so far technically into a state of "neo-barbarism" that they needed to re-invent swordfighting, that they would have re-invented a WEARABLE sword. The horizontal hand-guard "quillions" would make the sword eminently un-comfortable to wear and use. If the Graysons had regressed this far, I think that if they wanted a personal weapon to wear, they would have made it wearable.

I would add to that a sword that does not make several fairly standard moves impractical. The quillions shown in HOS would be in your way attempting a simple onside/offside combo.