How to Recover from OB was-RMN Pows Held by RoH Op Thund..

I have been thinking about another idea.

Stupid Question that relates. Does anybody know the number of Royal Manticore Navy Prisoners that were being held by Haven. Not concerned by the techs for this one.

I can't remember or find where it is mentioned. If you know where the number is referenced I would appreciate it.

Thanks in advance,

T2M

Edited for when I go looking through posts in the future. As only 3 posts(2 of which were mine) dealt with the toic question.

My recollection was that it was somewhere between 100 k and 250 k people. THese weren't the people with detailed knowledge of Manticore's most advanced systems, but they were highly experienced ship yard workers.

Yes, I get the obvious point. Just another pool of people who can help rebuild Manticore ship building after Oyster Bay.


Question. why does Weber presume that after working their butts off to get the python lump out of the yards, why didn't any of the workers take a vacation. Under normal, American practice where people get two weeks of vacation, I'd expect that one worker in twenty-five would be off the stations along with their family having some fun. If they were Europeans it would be more like one worker in ten would be bye bye. Given all of the deferred vacations while they worked on the python lump, I'd expect that perhaps one in five ship yard workers would be taking an overdue vacation when OB hit.

Now about those retirees or people who've moved on to other professions as you would expect in a prolong society?

Geez namelessfly, what do you know.
There are fast vacation facilities at the space station, no need for anyone to get dirtside.
/sarcsam

You are completely right. Siklled mapower shouldnt be a problem for Manticore:
- POWs from Grendelsbane
- retirees
- vacationers
- workers from other yards and repair depots
- help from the Andermani

IMO they should have no problem getting more than half workforce back together within a tyear.

namelessfly wrote:My recollection was that it was somewhere between 100 k and 250 k people. THese weren't the people with detailed knowledge of Manticore's most advanced systems, but they were highly experienced ship yard workers.

Yes, I get the obvious point. Just another pool of people who can help rebuild Manticore ship building after Oyster Bay.


Question. why does Weber presume that after working their butts off to get the python lump out of the yards, why didn't any of the workers take a vacation. Under normal, American practice where people get two weeks of vacation, I'd expect that one worker in twenty-five would be off the stations along with their family having some fun. If they were Europeans it would be more like one worker in ten would be bye bye. Given all of the deferred vacations while they worked on the python lump, I'd expect that perhaps one in five ship yard workers would be taking an overdue vacation when OB hit.

Now about those retirees or people who've moved on to other professions as you would expect in a prolong society?

I'm sure that the economic minister was taking the vacationers into account when giving his estimates on how long it would take Manticore to get back on its feet after this sucker punch.

The problem with retirees and those that have moved on to other jobs is that they would have to go through at least a refresher course depending on how long they've been off the job. Then you have to deal with WHY they aren't on the job anymore, even in the Honorverse I'm sure you've got the phenomena of unemployable people cause they are lazy, incompenant or both.

I mean suppose you have someone that got fired the day before oyster bay, do you REALLY want to recall that guy afterwards?

My understanding is that most shipyards would essentially send everyone on vacation at once once the ship is done, then a lot get put on layoff status until another ship is far enough along to need them.

An empty construction slip doesn't really have any use for a guy whose an expert at installing cryogenic storage tanks, missile feed systems, or the outer missile core door systems. Most of them are not going to sit in a construction barracks playing cards while not being paid for the next 6-12 months when they could be with their families.

With the construction rate and methods, I'd assume that there's almost always another ship that's ready for a crew by the time they're done with a ship.

kzt wrote:My understanding is that most shipyards would essentially send everyone on vacation at once once the ship is done, then a lot get put on layoff status until another ship is far enough along to need them.

An empty construction slip doesn't really have any use for a guy whose an expert at installing cryogenic storage tanks, missile feed systems, or the outer missile core door systems. Most of them are not going to sit in a construction barracks playing cards while not being paid for the next 6-12 months when they could be with their families.

namelessfly wrote:My recollection was that it was somewhere between 100 k and 250 k people. THese weren't the people with detailed knowledge of Manticore's most advanced systems, but they were highly experienced ship yard workers.

Yes, I get the obvious point. Just another pool of people who can help rebuild Manticore ship building after Oyster Bay.


Question. why does Weber presume that after working their butts off to get the python lump out of the yards, why didn't any of the workers take a vacation. Under normal, American practice where people get two weeks of vacation, I'd expect that one worker in twenty-five would be off the stations along with their family having some fun. If they were Europeans it would be more like one worker in ten would be bye bye. Given all of the deferred vacations while they worked on the python lump, I'd expect that perhaps one in five ship yard workers would be taking an overdue vacation when OB hit.

Now about those retirees or people who've moved on to other professions as you would expect in a prolong society?

Not nessaceraly during WWII all US shipyards worked 24/7 with employees differing or selling back there vacation time to buy war bonds. One of my uncles worked for NNSB&DD during WWII and he said he did not take a vacation from Sept 1941 untill July 1944 he said he worked an average of 50-60hr per week and would take anywhere from 1-3 days off every 3-4 weeks.

As to yard workers sitting around because there jobs are finished or not required. Wouldn't they rotate the workers to the various building slips as they were needed.
eg they just finished installing the fusion plants on PCU Treecat now the are sent to install the fusion plants on PCU Peakbear then when they finish that job thier sent to PCU Hexapuma II to install that ships fusion plants.

Donnachaidh wrote:With the construction rate and methods, I'd assume that there's almost always another ship that's ready for a crew by the time they're done with a ship.

It would make sense, but I don't think so in this case. The RMN talks about the python lump, which implies a mass completion, followed by long pause before the next group reaches completion. They just sent a huge number of warships for initial workup and commissioning. The impression provided by the text was that they had laid down and just started constructing the next set. So the people who install gear on largely completed hulls have no largely completed hulls to work on.

The fact that they are able to do this implies that they have a lot more people to do the more advanced phases of construction than they would have in a fully rationalized construction program.

It's like building a large hospital. Initially all you have on site are guys moving earth and pouring concrete. They the earth moving guys leave and the steelworkers show up to erect the building. Then the steelworkers leave and HVAC guys hang airducts, the plumbers install pipes and the electrical guys install conduit. Then most of them leave and the drywall guys install the walls, the door guys install the doors, the data cable guys pull cable, and the flooring guys put down the vinyl. Then they mostly leave and the guys who install the xray machines, the OR equipment, etc show up and do stuff.

If you blow the building site up a month into construction there isn't anyone who installs CT scanners on site. If you blow the building site up a week from completion there are no excavation, concrete or ironworkers on site.

Well, all the the slips that just shipped out the python lump had the next generation of ships in them according to MOH. So, whoever did that are gone. ALl the folks making the parts to put in said next gen ships are gone. Yes, I think quite a few of the workers actually making said ships are on leave or vacation, but I don't see this as being the limiting factor for Manticore. Their base inddustry just got their nosed wiped very very clean. Won't matter how many ship workers there are if they have no parts to install and nobody around who knows how to create said parts as the processes to make said parts are usually NEVER documented in industry, rather its passed down via "tribal" knowledge on high tech goods because THIS is the trade secrets, not the patents. In fact all of said processes would never be patented because as soon as you do everyone else now knows exactly how to do it. Its why corporate espionage holds such a heavy penalty. They are spiing out the processes, said "tribal Knowledge".

I'm thinking this is going to really improve Manticore's orbital industry due the fact they can design it from the ground up as it were.