HFQ Thoughts/reflections SPOILERS

BrightSoul wrote:I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned this but did any one else notice all the textev dropped on how thoroughly the inquisition has control of all armed troops near Zion?

When I see the prisoner caravans returning to the Temple Lands I begin to wonder if they could become a source of troops to back Duchairn/Magwaire? Setup for the inevitable internal confrontation?

Then there's the whole Chisholmian rebellion. I've been waiting for Garvai to drop the hammer on them out of Corisande.

If Rayno is a subtle man he will follow Clyntahn's orders to the letter and assign every possible Inquisitor to hunting down the Fist of Kau-Yung, thus siphoning purple people off guard duty. "Your Grace, God wants us to smite the enemy where they are, not hide in the Temple". Rayno might follow by replacing them with Temple Guards seconded to the Inquisition. "Your Grace, I have made sure that they will obey only our orders, not the Captain General's".

PeterZ wrote:

n7axw wrote:
Disagree. A Corisandian invasion of Chisholm would be a political disaster for the Empire regardless of the particulars--and you can bet your last Charisian mark that is how it would be perceived in Chisholm--especially after what happened to King Sailys.

Nope. If the crown is worried that their man on the spot can't handle the situation, it would be far wiser to send newly trained Corisandians to the front along with Gahrvai and rotate back home someone like Sympkyn or High Mount with a few brigades of ICA veterans to deal with it. They are probably ready for rest and refit anyway.

Don

No invasion, Don. ICA troops training in Chisholm come to the rescue. Not an invasion at all, since everyone is a Charisian.

My basic point here is that the public face on this has to be Chisholmian. That Gahvari is not.

It's not realistic at this point to assume that the public's image of themselves will be imperial rather than Chisholmian.

They do truly love their queen. And they have for the most part supported the Empire. But they are still Chisholmian.
It couldn't be any other way. The Empire is still to new.


Don

evilauthor wrote:

Hiruu wrote:I’m not certain where things are going with Thrisk, except maybe a Coup D’tat, which would cause an avalanche of cratering support for the Church.

I don't see coup d'etat. Thirsk is too loyal to his sovereign for that. And in any case, it seems obvious to me that the Dohlaran leadership would get Dohlar out of the Jihad if they could figure out how to get away with it.

I do see him leading an attempt to purge the Inquisition from Dohlar so Dohlar CAN drop out of the Jihad though.

Dohlar could use a coup. Heck, Rahnahld could use a coup - the poor guy just wants to be left alone with his pigeons and maybe his family. He's the poster child for a figurehead monarchy, with a real constitution providing legitimacy and authority for some sort of somewhat democratically elected government. He's not up for more than a token crown; get the real one off his head!

So here, a coup isn't even something that's against his nation or his sovereign. It'd be on their behalf, and it's just a part of getting Dohlar out.

n7axw wrote:
My basic point here is that the public face on this has to be Chisholmian. That Gahvari is not.

It's not realistic at this point to assume that the public's image of themselves will be imperial rather than Chisholmian.

They do truly love their queen. And they have for the most part supported the Empire. But they are still Chisholmian.
It couldn't be any other way. The Empire is still to new.


Don

I'm really not sweating over the malcontents in Chisholm.

With the SNARC coverage that's on them, Sharly knows everything they do except- maybe- what they dream at night. When Owl and Nahrmahn locate something that would make taking action against them plausible, the word will be passed along to the authorities in Chisholm, who suspect they are up to something already, and they will come down on them like a ton of bricks.

The only sticky point may be when something plausible and actionable comes to light. Best case would be to catch them before they are ready to do anything major. If they get the chance make their move, things could get bloody and you can be our favorite Schulerite will milk every drop of the propaganda value out of it, too.

To either the Chisholmian aristos or the majority of the commoners the other group is as Chisholmian as Gahrvai and any Corisandian. There is no common ground between the Chisholm conservative aristocrats and commoners. That lack of common ground makes them as foreign to each other as they are to Gahrvai. Actually, the Chisholmian commoner has more in common with Gahrvai than their conservative aristocracy, since they both tabor Sharley as their monarch.

In that way I believe you overstate this particular concern.

n7axw wrote:

PeterZ wrote:
No invasion, Don. ICA troops training in Chisholm come to the rescue. Not an invasion at all, since everyone is a Charisian.

My basic point here is that the public face on this has to be Chisholmian. That Gahvari is not.

It's not realistic at this point to assume that the public's image of themselves will be imperial rather than Chisholmian.

They do truly love their queen. And they have for the most part supported the Empire. But they are still Chisholmian.
It couldn't be any other way. The Empire is still to new.


Don

jtg452 wrote:

n7axw wrote:
My basic point here is that the public face on this has to be Chisholmian. That Gahvari is not.

It's not realistic at this point to assume that the public's image of themselves will be imperial rather than Chisholmian.

They do truly love their queen. And they have for the most part supported the Empire. But they are still Chisholmian.
It couldn't be any other way. The Empire is still to new.


Don

I'm really not sweating over the malcontents in Chisholm.

With the SNARC coverage that's on them, Sharly knows everything they do except- maybe- what they dream at night. When Owl and Nahrmahn locate something that would make taking action against them plausible, the word will be passed along to the authorities in Chisholm, who suspect they are up to something already, and they will come down on them like a ton of bricks.

The only sticky point may be when something plausible and actionable comes to light. Best case would be to catch them before they are ready to do anything major. If they get the chance make their move, things could get bloody and you can be our favorite Schulerite will milk every drop of the propaganda value out of it, too.

Since Sharley decided to go back to Charis, there is no member of the inner circle in Chisholm, so I guess the seijins will have to be paying a few visits. I wonder how it will be handled...

Don

PeterZ wrote:To either the Chisholmian aristos or the majority of the commoners the other group is as Chisholmian as Gahrvai and any Corisandian. There is no common ground between the Chisholm conservative aristocrats and commoners. That lack of common ground makes them as foreign to each other as they are to Gahrvai. Actually, the Chisholmian commoner has more in common with Gahrvai than their conservative aristocracy, since they both tabor Sharley as their monarch.

In that way I believe you overstate this particular concern.

Perhaps. But perhaps not too. The whole situation is in flux at the moment with the guilds waking up to the precariousness of their position.

I understand that Chisholm is not a nation state in a modern sense. But they are a island with a common set of memories among which are that Hektor of Corisande managed to get their beloved king killed. So it scarcely sounds wise to have a Corisandian in the middle of this. In fact I think it sounds insensitive as the dickens.

While I am under no illusions about the popularity of the aristocrats, if this situation is handled at all clumsily, it does have the potential to get nasty. The aristocrats obviously don't win in the end, but as Cayleb put it, a lot of innocent people could get caught in the middle.

Don

With the exception of your insensitive charge, I agree. Chisholm is less a nation state than Siddermark and Charis. They are and island nation with a shared history of actual class warfare. Each sees where history is headed and concludes very different things. The aristocrats see a dissipation of their power while the commoners see their emerging self determination. Each defines their sense of of an ideal nation with those goals in mind.

So, while Corisandians did kill their beloved king, they at least recognize the growing self determination Sharley is fostering that the aristocrats are trying to smother. One set of enemies are learning to not be enemies while the other is doubling down on their enmity.

So, I am really looking forward to his RFC handle this as you are.

n7axw wrote:

PeterZ wrote:To either the Chisholmian aristos or the majority of the commoners the other group is as Chisholmian as Gahrvai and any Corisandian. There is no common ground between the Chisholm conservative aristocrats and commoners. That lack of common ground makes them as foreign to each other as they are to Gahrvai. Actually, the Chisholmian commoner has more in common with Gahrvai than their conservative aristocracy, since they both tabor Sharley as their monarch.

In that way I believe you overstate this particular concern.

Perhaps. But perhaps not too. The whole situation is in flux at the moment with the guilds waking up to the precariousness of their position.

I understand that Chisholm is not a nation state in a modern sense. But they are a island with a common set of memories among which are that Hektor of Corisande managed to get their beloved king killed. So it scarcely sounds wise to have a Corisandian in the middle of this. In fact I think it sounds insensitive as the dickens.

While I am under no illusions about the popularity of the aristocrats, if this situation is handled at all clumsily, it does have the potential to get nasty. The aristocrats obviously don't win in the end, but as Cayleb put it, a lot of innocent people could get caught in the middle.

Don

PeterZ wrote:With the exception of your insensitive charge, I agree. Chisholm is less a nation state than Siddermark and Charis. They are and island nation with a shared history of actual class warfare. Each sees where history is headed and concludes very different things. The aristocrats see a dissipation of their power while the commoners see their emerging self determination. Each defines their sense of of an ideal nation with those goals in mind.

So, while Corisandians did kill their beloved king, they at least recognize the growing self determination Sharley is fostering that the aristocrats are trying to smother. One set of enemies are learning to not be enemies while the other is doubling down on their enmity.

So, I am really looking forward to his RFC handle this as you are.

I imagine the Chisholmian commons - at least the politically thoughtful element - have a stronger national identity than the aristocrats. they've identified with the monarchy against the aristocrats, and the monarchy and army are national institutions. Heck, any Chisholmian monarchist is going to be cranky toward Corisande for King Sailys' death.

On the other hand, if they're pro-Sharleyan, pro-monarchy, and pro-enough-empire, Imperial troops stomping homegrown aristocrat traitors are going to be okay in their book. They'd probably be happier if they were Chisholmian native troops, but if they're fellow Imperial loyalists who all had the misfortune to be born in Corisande, well, nobody's perfect.

Less politically thoughtful commons - and honestly, most people have better things to do, especially if they are not that enfranchised - are going to judge troops by their local behavior more than anything else. In the middle of a war, civil or not, you mostly want to avoid getting hurt, keep your stuff, keep getting food and shelter, and get this over with or far away or both.

JeffEngel wrote:

Dohlar could use a coup. Heck, Rahnahld could use a coup - the poor guy just wants to be left alone with his pigeons and maybe his family. He's the poster child for a figurehead monarchy, with a real constitution providing legitimacy and authority for some sort of somewhat democratically elected government. He's not up for more than a token crown; get the real one off his head!

If it happens then I'd like to name it the pigeon coup.

~Tonto