HFQ Thoughts/reflections SPOILERS

That's why they had to allude to the Inquisitor seijin Zhosua Murphai extracted as the guilty party. He disappears and all suspicion point there. Rayno survives as a mole for a little while longer.

They had to risk that assassination because Clyntahn would have gutted the Magwair's forces including those elements supporting Helm Cleaver.

Expert snuggler wrote:How did the good guys know about a secret meeting of Clyntahn goons? Since Merlin won't risk bugging the Temple, this implies some really good HUMINT.

If I can figure that out then so can the Grand Fornicator.

Ramhawkfan wrote:

Expert snuggler wrote:How did the good guys know about a secret meeting of Clyntahn goons? Since Merlin won't risk bugging the Temple, this implies some really good HUMINT.

If I can figure that out then so can the Grand Fornicator.

One of the Fist of God agents was working on Rayno's staff(Byrtrym Zhansyn). He was the one who's wife and children were killed by a vicar in a carriage accident.. He set the charges, then snuck out of the church before the blast, so he is listed as one of the dead.

I think, but could be wrong, that he wasn't the Temple guard with the family. I thought that was Macbeth (sp?) who owns a liquor shop but was Zhansyn's contact. Zhansyn was an inquisitor that was "attacked," actually wounded, by the Fist Of God while they were after one of the, Vicars, I think? And "left for dead" with a permanent limp after that attack, which got him trusted enough to get a desk job in headquarters and access to all kinds of things. He got a ride out in the skimmer after that explosion, probably because he'd be on the short list of people that Clinton or Rayno would come to suspect. Zhansyn was the relative to several women in the Sisters of Saint Khody. He had been in the building a few minutes before it blew up, possibly to convince everyone that he died in the explosion.

As far as I remember, the Ex-Temple guard with the not quite murdered family is still active in Zion.

.[/quote]

One of the Fist of God agents was working on Rayno's staff(Byrtrym Zhansyn). He was the one who's wife and children were killed by a vicar in a carriage accident.. He set the charges, then snuck out of the church before the blast, so he is listed as one of the dead.[/quote]

I think, but could be wrong, that he wasn't the Temple guard with the family. I thought that was Macbeth (sp?) who owns a liquor shop but was Zhansyn's contact. Zhansyn was an inquisitor that was "attacked," actually wounded, by the Fist Of God while they were after one of the, Vicars, I think? And "left for dead" with a permanent limp after that attack, which got him trusted enough to get a desk job in headquarters and access to all kinds of things. He got a ride out in the skimmer after that explosion, probably because he'd be on the short list of people that Clinton or Rayno would come to suspect. Zhansyn was the relative to several women in the Sisters of Saint Khody. He had been in the building a few minutes before it blew up, possibly to convince everyone that he died in the explosion.

As far as I remember, the Ex-Temple guard with the not quite murdered family is still active in Zion.[/quote]

Yeah, You're right, I got the 2 switched. But he was the mole. I know Peter thinks Rayno is a mole, but I don't really buy that. We've seen too many of his thoughts and reactions from his pov for me to believe that.

We actually haven't gotten any descriptions on what Rayno believes and feels. All we have seen of his internal reactions are of his feelings with respect to Clyntahn. We have seen Clyntahn through his eyes. We have never read his perspective on why he stays. We have reading of what Rayno does outside of executing Clyntahn's plans before that scene where he is presented with the letter from the Fist of God. All our information about Rayno comes for other POVs than his.

His cousin the King of Delfahrahk laments that Rayno doesn't help his family. Does that suggest a lack of corruption or something else? We know that he rigged the vote between Samyl Wylsyn and Clyntahn. That has been repeated over and over. But what if that event was more complicated than we are led to believe. What if those complications are aligning to bite his Grand Fornicatorship in the very maximus gluteus?

I know, lots of questions. Questions that stem from a very curious lack of direct knowledge about this one character.

PeterZ wrote:We actually haven't gotten any descriptions on what Rayno believes and feels. All we have seen of his internal reactions are of his feelings with respect to Clyntahn. We have seen Clyntahn through his eyes. We have never read his perspective on why he stays. We have reading of what Rayno does outside of executing Clyntahn's plans before that scene where he is presented with the letter from the Fist of God. All our information about Rayno comes for other POVs than his.

His cousin the King of Delfahrahk laments that Rayno doesn't help his family. Does that suggest a lack of corruption or something else? We know that he rigged the vote between Samyl Wylsyn and Clyntahn. That has been repeated over and over. But what if that event was more complicated than we are led to believe. What if those complications are aligning to bite his Grand Fornicatorship in the very maximus gluteus?

I know, lots of questions. Questions that stem from a very curious lack of direct knowledge about this one character.

You might have a point, but I have trouble believing that Ninian would leave Clyntahn alive this long if she had Rayno, probably the one person that could kill him and have a chance of escape. Now that she is part of the inner circle, she might want to keep him alive a while longer, but before she knew everything....it feels off to me. Time, and another book or two, will tell though..

Rayno isn't a Vicar. He won't succeed Clyntahn should an assassin kill the fat SOB. They need to follow the plan so that the inquisition is completely defanged.

Ramhawkfan wrote:

PeterZ wrote:We actually haven't gotten any descriptions on what Rayno believes and feels. All we have seen of his internal reactions are of his feelings with respect to Clyntahn. We have seen Clyntahn through his eyes. We have never read his perspective on why he stays. We have reading of what Rayno does outside of executing Clyntahn's plans before that scene where he is presented with the letter from the Fist of God. All our information about Rayno comes for other POVs than his.

His cousin the King of Delfahrahk laments that Rayno doesn't help his family. Does that suggest a lack of corruption or something else? We know that he rigged the vote between Samyl Wylsyn and Clyntahn. That has been repeated over and over. But what if that event was more complicated than we are led to believe. What if those complications are aligning to bite his Grand Fornicatorship in the very maximus gluteus?

I know, lots of questions. Questions that stem from a very curious lack of direct knowledge about this one character.

You might have a point, but I have trouble believing that Ninian would leave Clyntahn alive this long if she had Rayno, probably the one person that could kill him and have a chance of escape. Now that she is part of the inner circle, she might want to keep him alive a while longer, but before she knew everything....it feels off to me. Time, and another book or two, will tell though..

Steve J wrote:Hi everybody.

I'll be amazed if there isn't a coup in Dohlar in the next book led by Thirsk and Ahlverez with Dohlar then either becoming neutral or changing sides.

Thirsk has been gifted an ironclad which will become his flagship and will be the most powerful unit in the Dohlaran Navy once they have repaired it and which he will presumably crew with people he knows to be loyal to him. Ahlverez has around 20,000 troops that were inexplicably allowed to escape from South March and who will be very loyal to him.

Steve

Hi Steve, welcome to the forums. It's a fun place and we are a (mostly) friendly bunch.

However, I don't see Thirsk being part of a coup. He has consistently be characterized as being extremely loyal to King and Country. I don't think that aspect of his character will change. However, if something were to happen to the royal family (such as an assassination by the Inquisition) or if the King of Dohlar was to decide to withdraw from the Jihad, I could very easily see Thirsk fighting against the CoG in defense of his kingdom.

Henry Brown wrote:I don't see Thirsk being part of a coup.

Maybe not, although Clyntahn seems to be concerned about what Thirsk and Ahlverez might do in Dohlar. So much so, that he is planning to murder Thirsk in the summer of 898.

One way or another, we a rapidly approaching the end game for Dohlar. Where has Eastshare been positioning his troops in August and September? Using some of them to take Alyksberg and the canal from there to the Bay of Bess looks like an obvious move to me, especially if the Sheridan is navigable up as far as Alyksberg. Bahrn's ironclad the river north of Dairnyth (sp?) anyone?

Steve

It would be insane for the Inquisition to bump off the King of Dohlar.

Clyntahn might do it.

He proved with the attack on Charis that he doesn't understand that terrorizing secular rulers will backfire. Can't you just see him thinking that torturing Ranyld to death for lack of zeal would fire up others to greater efforts?

Expert snuggler wrote:It would be insane for the Inquisition to bump off the King of Dohlar.

Clyntahn might do it.

He proved with the attack on Charis that he doesn't understand that terrorizing secular rulers will backfire. Can't you just see him thinking that torturing Ranyld to death for lack of zeal would fire up others to greater efforts?

Yep.

Furthermore, he proved he did not learn from the attack on Charis when he launched the Sword of Scheuler against Siddarmark a few years later. Plus there were a few sections in HFQ where he is characterized as starting to feel frightened and desperate. Not good traits for rational decision making.