Ramifications from HFQ- Speculations-Spoilers!

Henry Brown wrote:snip

Exactly what is the improvement in fire control that is on the way? I seem to remember a mention of it in HFQ. But I do not remember specifics being discussed.

There is mention of Nahrmann having come up with a new system for the observation of fires but nothing specific on that is given.

I would separate "observation of fire" from "fire control" Observations are used to bring one gun/section/btry on to a specific target. Fire control is the control of multiple artillery units to bring their fire on to one target and/or to shift one or more of these units to different targets. The use of planned, pre-plotted fires is a limited form of fire control.
My SWAG on Nahrmann's improvements to observation of fire is some form of communications improvement.

Keith_w wrote:

WeberFan wrote:Clyntahn knows he no longer has leverage with Thirsk. Thirsk knows Clyntahn no longer has leverage with Thirsk. EVERYONE knows Clyntahn no longer has leverage with Thirsk. Thirsk knows that his head is on the chopping block whenever Clyntahn wants it there. Thirsk knows (without proof as of the end of HFQ) that the Church has lied about what happened to his kin. IMHO, when Merlin tells Thirsk that his kin are safe, he will have the proof he needs to confirm 100% that the Church has lied and any remaining loyalty Thirsk feels for A) his king and B) the Church will disappear. I see him disappearing from Dohlar pretty quickly and ending up in Charisian hands. When he physically SEES that his kin are safe, he will become a devout reformist. Mark my words.

Why would he think that? At this point in time, the church, along with everyone else, believes that everyone on the ship was lost, so basically they are not lying, simply mistaken. Covering up the rescue of Thirsk's family was the whole point of the exercise of blowing the ship up after killing most of the crew.

The Church said that it was attacked and destroyed by the ICN. Thirsk knows that to be false false thanks to the fisherman's testimony about a single, giant explosion (the result of Merlin's bomb, looking like a magazine explosion).

PeterZ wrote:2) HMS Dreadnought will provide a roadmap to create much more seaworthy armored ships. Her guns will indicate better ways to make iron/steel guns. The remaining brown coco powder will suggest alternatives to the jihadi black powder. Absent reverse engineering all those elements, Dreadnought and the screw galleys won't be able to face the other Thunderers coming to the Gulf of Dohlar.

While it's true that having the ship itself will no doubt help with *construction plans* for similar vessels, there are limits as to how much knowledge can be extracted just by looking at it.

For example. Steel formulas. Without spectroscopy, or a very profound knowledge of chemistry, it's unlikely a piece of steel is going to give up much of the details of it's manufacture. Probably not even all that much about it's component "mix" proportions, or even it's tempering process. Without knowing the actual process, attempting to duplicate it is basically a lot of trial and error - which, without Owl and Merlin, would have been what Charis would have had to do to develop it on their own.

Also, a large part of designing a vessel needs detailed knowledge of the properties of what it's built out of. Perhaps more so in the King Harralds than a mere ironclad, but the difference is more one of magnitude rather than type. If Dohlar can't duplicate the properties of the steel Charis produces, then it's likely any ships they build won't be as "hardened" as Charis's. While a more brittle steel might still be better than mere wood, it's not going to be as good as something with higher tensile strength.

Explosive mixtures are similar. The AOG had captured "corned powder" before; but until the spy at the powder mill actually obtained *how* it was made, the AOG manufacturers had no idea how to duplicate it. No doubt with enough experimentation they might have stumbled across the method, but also perhaps not.

It is beginning to appear that Safehold will transform into RFC's homage to steampunk. I don't see the MHoGatA being rolled over soon. I don't see Clyntahn surviving. I do see a truce developing until The Return.

That all points to developing steam further than it was ever developed in our timeline. Steam tanks, steam cars, massive steam construction equipment, steam compressors running pneumatic systems and the list goes on.

PeterZ wrote:It is beginning to appear that Safehold will transform into RFC's homage to steampunk. I don't see the MHoGatA being rolled over soon. I don't see Clyntahn surviving. I do see a truce developing until The Return.

That all points to developing steam further than it was ever developed in our timeline. Steam tanks, steam cars, massive steam construction equipment, steam compressors running pneumatic systems and the list goes on.

Unless they can come up with a way to deal with the OBS and what's under the temple very quickly, I think you're right. Edward is already on the fast track for developing all the above, and it sounds like the EOC is going to need every advantage it can get to stay ahead of the Church..Assuming Clyntahn doesn't manage to run the COG into the ground, of course.

Ramhawkfan wrote:Unless they can come up with a way to deal with the OBS and what's under the temple very quickly, I think you're right. Edward is already on the fast track for developing all the above, and it sounds like the EOC is going to need every advantage it can get to stay ahead of the Church..Assuming Clyntahn doesn't manage to run the COG into the ground, of course.

Well according to Duchairn, Mother Church is going to be flat broke and completely unable to pay ANY bills in about a year's time. Or in other words, just about the time next summer's campaign season starts.

Of course, Clyntahn's prepared to go to full command "economy" and simply "requisition" everything needed to fight the war. Duchairne (or was it Magwair? Possibly both) expects trying to do that would be a complete disaster.

EdThomas wrote:My SWAG on Nahrmann's improvements to observation of fire is some form of communications improvement.

Probably tin cans and a string

The Haarahld VIIs will be more accurate simply due to their huge size. I noted how the groups of guns on the Thunderer class suffered from wave action affecting their accuracy when firing at the approaching Dohlaran fleet.

If they'd had a decent targeting system that compensated for the action of waves and the speeds and course of each ship, the sole ironclad galleon lost in HFQ could have blown away most of the enemy ships before they closed to within the range of their more primitive cannons.

Hopefully the Haarahlds will have some sort of fire control/targeting system, since I vaguely recall it being mentioned as well. (Although that might have been in another thread and not textev.)

Still, any wooden ship that gets hit by a shell from any of the Haarahld's 10" guns is not going to require another shot!

If the Church has to commandeer its war supplies it will lose not only good will but respect also. Scurrilous propaganda with caricatures of a Vicar with a begging bowl would make the man in the street angry at the caricature, but it would also stick in his mind. A marketing campaign to people with money would use the talking point "Tithes were bad enough, why are they plundering us too?". They could then make the leap that Charis doesn't plunder when it wins.

Next up, Duchairn must have considered the idea of a "wealth tax", tithing people's estates as well as their income. He's smart enough to have rejected it. If Clyntahn hears of the idea he'll demand it. What happens next? Macchiavelli said a man will sooner forgive the loss of his father than the loss of his patrimony.

The interesting thing, to me at least, is how the Mighty Host etc etc is going to dealt with. It is huge, seems to be well led and has some passable weaponry, either in hand or coming soon. It's sheer size gives the alliance a major problem.

But the leaders, at least Rainbow Waters and his nephew, do seem to be less than impressed with their directions from Zion and also with the camps. Given some serious damage when they do get into the field is it conceivable that they could decide to turn round and go home??

The naval aspect seems to be a bit simpler to progress, mainly involving some noisy and destructive events.

Now a bit of a nasty one, the 'inner circle' has grown with some more non-Charisians in place, could there be some 'second thoughts' somewhere and maybe a defection?

Interesting times ahead

johnb