Spoiler. Boarding actions

I am kind of thinking that the capture of Dreadnaught might be the last time we see a major warship boarded and captured in the series. Largely because the naval artillery on both sides is getting more and more lethal. The trend in most of the recent naval battles has been for ships to either be destroyed and sunk by shellfire or to be so badly damaged that they strike their colors. I suspect this trend to continue to increase in future books. It's a pity, I really enjoyed some of the boarding actions in previous books. Also, the pump shotgun just got invented. I'd really like to see what a boarding party of Charisan marines armed with pumps could do.

Henry Brown wrote:I am kind of thinking that the capture of Dreadnaught might be the last time we see a major warship boarded and captured in the series. Largely because the naval artillery on both sides is getting more and more lethal. The trend in most of the recent naval battles has been for ships to either be destroyed and sunk by shellfire or to be so badly damaged that they strike their colors. I suspect this trend to continue to increase in future books. It's a pity, I really enjoyed some of the boarding actions in previous books. Also, the pump shotgun just got invented. I'd really like to see what a boarding party of Charisian marines armed with pumps could do.

Other than quickly making lots of rather gritty hamburger? (Sorry, I'm bleaching my mind of that image too!)

This is post #1111 for me, or my 15th if we used binary, although it seems I've written a few more messages than that...

Once the steam engine goes into wide production, we'll see relatively slow cargo ships - a situation which simply demands small, fast, pirate ships which could chase them down, then the baddies could either hijack the cargo ships or steal the most valuable cargo. I'm not sure if you'd consider that a "boarding action" since it's piracy, not the clashing of two military vessels. It's certainly not on the scale of the battle at the end of OAR where Merlin races across a spar and leaps 30 feet across the gap of water between Cayleb's galleon and King Haarahld's galley.

The resulting hamburger - sorry, I mean "mayhem" is one of my favorite scenes of the series, and I still read it now and then when I want to remind myself what a PICA can do when it drops all self-imposed physical limitations on strength, speed, etc.

Nimue needs a scene like that...

McGuiness wrote:Other than quickly making lots of rather gritty hamburger? (Sorry, I'm bleaching my mind of that image too!)

This is post #1111 for me, or my 15th if we used binary, although it seems I've written a few more messages than that...

Once the steam engine goes into wide production, we'll see relatively slow cargo ships - a situation which simply demands small, fast, pirate ships which could chase them down, then the baddies could either hijack the cargo ships or steal the most valuable cargo. I'm not sure if you'd consider that a "boarding action" since it's piracy, not the clashing of two military vessels. It's certainly not on the scale of the battle at the end of OAR where Merlin races across a spar and leaps 30 feet across the gap of water between Cayleb's galleon and King Haarahld's galley.

The resulting hamburger - sorry, I mean "mayhem" is one of my favorite scenes of the series, and I still read it now and then when I want to remind myself what a PICA can do when it drops all self-imposed physical limitations on strength, speed, etc.

Nimue needs a scene like that...

Not sure about the piracy. I mean, sure, Charis probably is a year or two out from steam powered cargo ships. And I agree that they will probably be rather slow. But even a "slow" steamer can usually make a top speed somewhere between 10 to 15 knots. And can do it in any direction, without regard to how the winds are blowing. I just don't see how even a fast sailing ship can intercept that. So to conduct commerce warfare against steamers, the mainland forces will have to deploy steam powered privateers. And they are still a ways off from that. As far as we know, as of the end of HFQ, neither the CoG or Dohlar has a working prototype of a steam engine built yet.

What happened on Earth when navies were at a comparable level of technology to contemporary Safehold?

Expert snuggler wrote:What happened on Earth when navies were at a comparable level of technology to contemporary Safehold?

There really isn't a comparison, because the rapid advance of military technology means that each navy has a unique ship mix that never existed on earth because the galleys would have been decommissioned several hundred years before the first ironclad was ever thought of.

OP asked about a "major warship", which these days would have to be an ironclad.

Do fights between armored ships with HE shells more likely end with ships out of action but still having buoyancy reserve, or with ships going to the bottom?

Expert snuggler wrote:OP asked about a "major warship", which these days would have to be an ironclad.

Do fights between armored ships with HE shells more likely end with ships out of action but still having buoyancy reserve, or with ships going to the bottom?

It really depends on the design of the ship and on how big a shell they are hit with and exactly where they are hit. For example, during WWII HMS Hood suffered a hit rather early in a battle. The shell penetrated to the magazine and she blew up and sank quickly with large loss of life.

On the other hand, there is the case of the German battleship Bismarck. Bismarck took an unbelievable pounding by both British torpedo planes and battleships. First a airplane launched torpedo crippled her steering. Once unable to steer, Royal Navy battleships moved in and engaged. Estimates indicate that the ship was hit 400 times by shells. Despite this, the ship was still afloat (although completely disabled) until her crew set scuttling charges and abandoned ship.

The main reason wasn't the naval artillery, that boarding actions extinct. The main reason was wind-independent steam propulsion.

It is almost impossible to board the moving steamship, if her crew isn't going to assist in that. The moving steamer, that didn't constrained by wing, could pretty easily evade any attempt from even the faster enemy to go side-by-side. Moreover, the boarder is always have a risk to be just rammed by the steamer. And the screw propulsion is much harder to disable than masts.

The main reason the things go so badly for Charisians, was (as i predicted before ) they completely underestimated the mechanical propulsion. They were more sailing nation than any other Safeholdian - and the sucsess of their galleon fleet seems to hypnotise them. They have plenty enough of time to put at least small, auxilary steam engines onboard of their large irocnalds - like "Dreadnought" - and build at least a few steam sloops and gunboats for combat support. They decided to "go by the wind" - and, eventually, they were blown by the wind by the navy, that understood advantages of even limited mechanical propulsion.

Moral: Don't underestimate the mechanical propulsion, heretics! If Clyntahn have a better sence of humor, he would probably ordered this to be a motto of Dohlarian navy.

Expert snuggler wrote:OP asked about a "major warship", which these days would have to be an ironclad.

Do fights between armored ships with HE shells more likely end with ships out of action but still having buoyancy reserve, or with ships going to the bottom?

Basically, the battles between ironclad were a statlemate for the good part of XIX century. Up until Russo-Japanese War, the possibility of sinking the modern battleship with only artillery fire was questionable. The artillry was supposed more to prepare the situation for ramming and torpedo attacks - that COULD sunk the modern warship, but were much harder to use.

The actual situation always depend of the ships and guns used, of course.

One thing I was curious about with the taking of the dreadnaught is why merlin and co not send in a remote since they clearly were watching the fight to ignite the magazines. All the crew was dead and I don't think anybody on the opposing side would have been shocked if an unseen scuttling charge went off after the chaos of the boarding action.