HFQ Thoughts/reflections SPOILERS

Keith_w wrote:

Expert snuggler wrote:The conclusion starting from there is that there needs to be a contingency plan or cover story to explain why Thirsk will be so cheerful. He's probably not a skilled actor. Inquisitors are probably alert to the slightest emotional false note.

If he were not a somewhat skilled actor, then the inquisition would already be questioning him about his attitudes towards the church and his government.

I think he would have been questioned long ago expect for the navy's intendant and his "halo" for being one of the few people to give the charisians a thumping at sea.

Kytheros wrote:

evilauthor wrote:It's not unthinkable that a Lieutenant Commander might get referred to as just "Commander" by a subordinate.

When I was in the Army, I was assigned to the headquarters unit of a battalion. The battalion CO was a Lieutenant Colonel, but everyone under him consistently called him just "the Colonel" when referring to him and no one thought anything strange about it.

I can see the same thing being done in a naval organization, especially a SPACE Naval organization with several centuries of cultural drift from today's militaries.

I suspect that dropping the "Lieutenant" part of a rank in conversation is fairly common outside of formal circumstances or a need to differentiate between a Lt <whatever rank> and a <whatever rank> with the same last name. Not entirely unlike dropping the JG in a Lieutenant Junior Grade, or other modifiers to the primary rank title.
And I don't see a reason why that would change.

Yup, in the US Navy, when you are a LCDR, most just people just refer to you as CDR, but YOU refer to yourself as LCDR...lol! I think the more important point of this is to display OWL's continuing change and growth. Previously, OWL was a rigid military grade AI, but over the last 3 books, he's been becoming more aware, and I think THAT is the key distinction.

Overall, HFQ was a solid book, but probably the most emotional Weber book to-date for me. The battles are a staple and hallmark of Weber, so he delivers on that front. I’m a navy guy, so that’s where my preference lies, but they were all fine. What got to me was some of the internal dialogue and contextual ruminations…it could get a bit long in the tooth. I still think the whole giving an ironclad to the Dohlarians was a bit contrived, as Merlin or Nimue could have snuck onboard and planted an explosive in the magazine to sink the ship. The situation and the position of Clyntahn are interesting since like many megalomaniacal leaders in human history, the people around him just got tired of his shit, and either capped him or totally sidelined him. What I find interesting is how Clyntahn avoids any real heat for all the wrong decisions he makes, and manages to have others take responsibility for it. I’m not certain where things are going with Thrisk, except maybe a Coup D’tat, which would cause an avalanche of cratering support for the Church.

For the next book, we know the Chruch is estimating and force of 3 million men, as some looming threat, but considering that Siddermark HAD the largest population before the Civil War (and probably should still does, based one estimate of the dead), I can’t see WHY they can’t field an army in that range by themselves!??!? Not to mention that 2-1 odds still work in their favor easily. Strong entrenched defensive positions can easily blunt any mass advances. Setting up minefiled, and those slingers are useless, for example. There was a brief mention of Narhman figuring out some idea for fire-control, but I can’ think of a pre-electric system to do the on-the-fly calculations.

I also can’t understand why manufacturing capacity isn’t higher in Siddermark and the EoC, than it currently is? It would seem to be that the Church and her allies would be the ones behind, but every indication is that it is the other way around…puzzling? Anyway, enough of my rambling, but I hope the wait for the next book is closer to 14-16 months, rather than 24.

Hiruu wrote:I’m not certain where things are going with Thrisk, except maybe a Coup D’tat, which would cause an avalanche of cratering support for the Church.

I don't see coup d'etat. Thirsk is too loyal to his sovereign for that. And in any case, it seems obvious to me that the Dohlaran leadership would get Dohlar out of the Jihad if they could figure out how to get away with it.

I do see him leading an attempt to purge the Inquisition from Dohlar so Dohlar CAN drop out of the Jihad though.

I don't think that they can afford to leave Thirsk in place. Not if they want him to stay alive.

Best case is they get him out using what appears to be conventional methods and he ends up retiring surrounded by his family in the Empire some place that's out of the way.

Barring that, I can see Thirsk ending up keeping Owl and Nahrmahn company in Nimue's Cave, maybe even going into stasis. That would mean bringing him Inside the Circle and I don't know if they are willing to take that chance.

I don't think he'd be willing to just turn his coat. He has too much invested in rebuilding his navy to just flip sides. And I think that he's too ethical to actively fight against it.

Although having him working with Rock Point and the rest of the ICN command staff would be interesting. Maybe after the Big Reveal, we'll see him turned loose with a ICN command.

evilauthor wrote:

Hiruu wrote:I’m not certain where things are going with Thrisk, except maybe a Coup D’tat, which would cause an avalanche of cratering support for the Church.

I don't see coup d'etat. Thirsk is too loyal to his sovereign for that. And in any case, it seems obvious to me that the Dohlaran leadership would get Dohlar out of the Jihad if they could figure out how to get away with it.

I do see him leading an attempt to purge the Inquisition from Dohlar so Dohlar CAN drop out of the Jihad though.

He'd even report a coup plot to his superiors if he knew about it in advance. That's the way an oath of fealty works.

Merlin might try to engineer a coup without telling Thirsk.

Thirsk is sworn to serve the rightful king of Dohlar. He might not feel obliged to follow a usurper put on the throne by a demon. Nor, and this is more likely, by Clyntahn.

Hi everybody.

I'll be amazed if there isn't a coup in Dohlar in the next book led by Thirsk and Ahlverez with Dohlar then either becoming neutral or changing sides.

Thirsk has been gifted an ironclad which will become his flagship and will be the most powerful unit in the Dohlaran Navy once they have repaired it and which he will presumably crew with people he knows to be loyal to him. Ahlverez has around 20,000 troops that were inexplicably allowed to escape from South March and who will be very loyal to him.

Steve

If the King abdicates, then the coup would be a coup against the regency council, something a loyal subject such as Thirsk might find more palatable.

I just finished HFQ two minutes ago, and I haven't bothered to read any of the comments in this thread or any other, so here's my take on the book.

Mab and lots of OWLs remotes acting as an "army of seijins." Absolutely LOVED it!

The chapter in the internment camp with the 10 year old girl walking across the kill zone made me hate the Inquisition with an absolute white-hot fury. I despise Clyntahn, even while I'm forced to agree that he's doing more than anyone alive to break Safehold loose from the Proscriptions. But the way the Inquisition has warped and twisted Mother church into a cruel, vicious, psychotic stain on the face of the universe made me hate inquisitors more than I've ever hated any characters or organization in the thousands of books I've read.

I cheered when Mab sowed up for the priest's execution for the unpardonable sin of showing mercy to an innocent child and a family who hadn't been found to be heretics - yet. I just wish Mab could do the same in Zion someday!!!

It was interesting to see the troops battle with the quandary of their inquisitors being executed if the army surrendered. Some of those inquisitors turned out to be decent men as they encouraged surrender rather than death, even knowing it would mean they'd be killed themselves. (But not very many!)

The early battles were satisfying, although I felt that DE should have helped Hanth drive the Dohlarans out of Siddarmark for good.

HOW DOES THE INNER CIRCLE LET AHLVEREZ ESCAPE? He got away with 30,000 veteran troops, which is gonna bite the good guys someday. All DE or Hanth needed was a visit from a seijin to capture him and his entire army, who would gladly have surrendered just to get a square meal!!!

Nice work on encircling Kaitswyrth and Wyrshym I'd have enjoyed more details of the battle, but I realize that RFC doesn't write military porn.

I cannot believe that the MHoG just sat on its collective fannies all summer. On the other hand, three million enemy troops are going to pose quite a challenge for the good guys in the next book.

Somebody leaked the disaster at Delthak, but did it HAVE to be something that slowed the construction of the Haarahld VIIs by several months? The battles in the Gulf of Dohlar would have been completely different if only one of them had been available.

Duke Howsmyn! About time! (Congrats to Mrs. Duke Howsmyn for her patience.)

Nimue got to kick some butt again, which is always cool.

The cover was ACCURATE. I'm stunned. Also shocked that Merlin broke out so many high tech toys when he's refused to use them for the entire series until now.

I cheered when the girl from the concentration camp woke up in Nimue's cave. I'm not sure what she'll tell her friends about it as she grows up though...

DE is Patton, Napoleon, Eisenhower, Montgomery, Grant, Robert E. Lee, (Insert your favorite general here) all rolled into one. What he manages without SNARCs and only a few hints from a seijin now and then is astonishing and absolutely brilliant.

I predicted the end of the book almost word for word before flipping to the last page. Poor Thirsk... And his poor aid who died trying to deflect suspicion away from his superior officer. Nice to see he had nice aim, especially when shooting an Inquisitor!

Always get illegal, immoral commands in WRITING before shooting the superior officer who issued them in the head!

I'm tremendously relieved that most of the internment camps were liberated, and I was happy to see Mab taking an active role in killing off the guards and inquisitors who enjoyed camp duty a bit too much...

Clyntahn's paranoia and the broadsheets were priceless. I swear he's hearing Mab's footsteps behind him everywhere he goes.

Lemme get this straight - you have two ironclads that no enemy ship can sink, and you manage to lose both of them on a risky mission? Not only that, you fail to blow one of them up, so the enemy now has last year's cutting tech? That part of the book was a bitter pill to swallow - why didn't Merlin have a SNARC remote set off the magazine when it became clear that nobody had survived to light the fuses?

Loved the invention of the shotgun and Merlin and Nimue putting it to good use!

Green Valley is a stud, although we didn't hear from him again once he took Five Forks. Those 25,000 troops of Wyrshym's who tried to escape were caught, right?

Yairley had a much harder time dealing with the Big Reveal than I expected, but it was sure a big relief to get two members of the inner circle sent to join the fleet in the Gulf of Dohlar. That should have been a rule from day one!

Mab and his seijin army could have rescued or at least given quick deaths to the POWs on their trek to Zion in AMF. Too bad he waited so long to take an active role as the tool of God's punishment on Safehold.

Apparently the Jihad will go broke in a year or so, at which point the good guys can sail to the Temple and find out what's in the basement, after a fun game of "catch the evil vicars!"

Will Magwair kill Clyntahn before Clyntahn kills Magwair?

So much for repairing the canals quickly and invading through Tarikah. That never even got off the ground. I found that quite surprising.

Nice to see the City class ironclads in action, and Dohlar getting what it's had coming for a long time. Yep, they're out of the war, just as I predicted. (I got one thing right!)

The Border States are so gonna be toast! Can you say "Newest and westernmost provinces of Siddarmark?"

Mother Church has lost its moral compass and the entire world is beginning to see it. That's gonna get worse...

I realize Thirsk won't have a problem acting as if he still believes that his family is dead, but what's he gonna do as commander of the NoG when he'd rather emigrate to Charis? I see a bunch of ships striking their colors as soon as the Haarahld VIIs show up! (Why, oh why did there have to be a fire at Delthak so we didn't get to see them in action in this book?)

Cayleb and Sharley really do need to get together to create a second heir to the throne one of these days. I'm surprised Nahrmahn didn't give them body suits like Ohlyvya has for their anniversary!

Aivah's assassination squads are awesome! Blowing up all of the vicars on the military committees who Clyntahn has under his thumb! Listing all the vicars you've killed and their nasty sins on broadsheets! That showed some seriously large gonads.`

I'm sure I'll think of other things as I read other's posts, but off the top of my head, those are the things that I most enjoyed or disliked or felt impotent fury while reading HFQ.

How did the good guys know about a secret meeting of Clyntahn goons? Since Merlin won't risk bugging the Temple, this implies some really good HUMINT.

If I can figure that out then so can the Grand Fornicator.

Expert snuggler wrote:How did the good guys know about a secret meeting of Clyntahn goons? Since Merlin won't risk bugging the Temple, this implies some really good HUMINT.

If I can figure that out then so can the Grand Fornicator.

One of the Fist of God agents was working on Rayno's staff(Byrtrym Zhansyn). He was the one who's wife and children were killed by a vicar in a carriage accident.. He set the charges, then snuck out of the church before the blast, so he is listed as one of the dead.