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Ramifications from HFQ- Speculations-Spoilers!

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Ramifications from HFQ- Speculations-Spoilers!
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:21 am

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One of the clear results of HFQ is that the political and military landscapes have shifted significantly. The MHoGatA appear to be competently led, reasonably equipped and following a rational strategy. That suggests that as long as the jihad continues to receive funding, the MH can defend the most direct route to Zion effectively.

Therein lies the question. Does the jihad have sufficient funding to last beyond 898? The need for funding seems inexhaustible.

1) The MH and new formations of the AoG need to be equipped with artillery, infantry rifles, rockets, grenades and proper uniforms for winter and summer.

2) HMS Dreadnought will provide a roadmap to create much more seaworthy armored ships. Her guns will indicate better ways to make iron/steel guns. The remaining brown coco powder will suggest alternatives to the jihadi black powder. Absent reverse engineering all those elements, Dreadnought and the screw galleys won't be able to face the other Thunderers coming to the Gulf of Dohlar.

3) Adm Sarmount and Lt. Alpin-Ahrmahk, His Grace the Duke of Darcos will cut down on supplies moving from South Harchong to Gorath. I further suspect that Hektor and Nimue will be instrumental in securing the Western locks of the Salthar Canal in the next book. Those late leaving troops out of Cherayth last year will have arrived in the Gulf of Jahras already and are preparing to attack the canal.

4) The CoGA is indeed running out of money. They can confiscate more, but at what price? The more drastic the measure they employ, the more they will telegraph that they are losing. The greater the economic difficulty they face in contrast to Charis' prosperity, the more questions the loyalist laity will ask about God's lack of support of His Church. No matter what they do to continue the jihad, they have to build confidence or morale will plummet.

All these factors suggest the story will go in one of two directions. Either Clyntahn takes control of the jihad directly and offs Magwair or Magrwair and Duchairn succeed in offing Clyntahn. In another post I suggested Rayno was part of Nynian's action group. If I am right, Duchairn might well succeed in his efforts to kill Clyntahn. Otherwise, not likely at all.

I sort of wish that Clyntahn takes control directly and really mucks up the Loyalist nations' economies. Think about the St. Just period of the people's Republic of Haven and switch Clyntahn for St. Just. The principle difference is that St. Just wanted to help Rob s pierre reform Haven's economy and Clyntahn will move to centralize the planning and controls of the loyalits' economies.

Clyntahn's leading the jihad directly will much more quickly lead to widespread disillusionment of the loyalist laity. If Duchairn offs Clyntahn, things get a bit more dicey. The jihadi forces might well focus on defending against the allies moving west to Zion and offer a truce. The relative weapons parity and current numerical disparity may well suggest the Allies accept a truce to see if negotiations will leads somewhere. The Inner Circle might not agree, but Stonahr and the SSK (not in the Inner Circle) may well wish to see the CoGA reform significantly not see it destroyed.

If Clyntahn takes over directly, I see the Sleepers waking early somehow. If Duchairn offs Clyntahn, we get a hiatus until the scheduled awakening. Not sure which I want more? I am leaning towards a hiatus where Alahna is a junior lieutenant in the ICA or ICN, her younger brother just graduated the naval academy. He is joining Hektor's new command the 25,000 ton battleship Admiral Lock Island. This will be the first pure steel constructed ICN battlewagon armed with 5 double turret 14' BL rifles, 16 4' BL rifles and 4 21' torpedo tubes. For a better idea take a look at the HMS Audacious.
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Re: Ramifications from HFQ- Speculations-Spoilers!
Post by WeberFan   » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:31 am

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PeterZ wrote:----SNIP (emphasis mine)----
All these factors suggest the story will go in one of two directions. Either Clyntahn takes control of the jihad directly and offs Magwair or Magrwair and Duchairn succeed in offing Clyntahn. In another post I suggested Rayno was part of Nynian's action group. If I am right, Duchairn might well succeed in his efforts to kill Clyntahn. Otherwise, not likely at all.


I don't think Rayno is anything other than a complete, absolute follower of Clyntahn.

In textev that comes not from the book but from David's back-channel notes (on the Jiltanith site IIRC) Rayno is described as the person who fixed the election for Grand Inquisitor so that Clyntahn would win. He is (IMHO) beholden to Clyntahn for his own power, and - remember - he's Harchongian, with all the repressiveness that entails.
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Re: Ramifications from HFQ- Speculations-Spoilers!
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:53 am

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WeberFan wrote:
PeterZ wrote:----SNIP (emphasis mine)----
All these factors suggest the story will go in one of two directions. Either Clyntahn takes control of the jihad directly and offs Magwair or Magrwair and Duchairn succeed in offing Clyntahn. In another post I suggested Rayno was part of Nynian's action group. If I am right, Duchairn might well succeed in his efforts to kill Clyntahn. Otherwise, not likely at all.


I don't think Rayno is anything other than a complete, absolute follower of Clyntahn.

In textev that comes not from the book but from David's back-channel notes (on the Jiltanith site IIRC) Rayno is described as the person who fixed the election for Grand Inquisitor so that Clyntahn would win. He is (IMHO) beholden to Clyntahn for his own power, and - remember - he's Harchongian, with all the repressiveness that entails.


I am not arguing with any of what you post. As I read his scenes in HFQ, something just doesn't add up. The same sorts of differences appeared in the Seafarmer scene with Rayno leading to Irys's rescue in AMF and the scene the morning after Ahbraim visited Mdme. Ahzhelyk's between Nynian and Sahndrah.

The biggest red flag to me was both his being spared by the Fist of God and his reaction to the letter announcing his being spared. The letter sets up the Fist's capability to secretly place explosives in key locations. That makes it more likely that OWL/demons will not be blamed for setting explosives in secure locations. The same lesson would could have been made in other ways and the Fist could still have taken Rayno out.

Killing Rayno would have made Clyntahn's leadership team LESS capable, why spare him? My gut tells me he is in some way aiding either the SSK or Helm Cleaver. Why is he helping is still a mystery.
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Re: Ramifications from HFQ- Speculations-Spoilers!
Post by phillies   » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:59 am

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PeterZ wrote:One of the clear results of HFQ is that the political and military landscapes have shifted significantly. The MHoGatA appear to be competently led, reasonably equipped and following a rational strategy. That suggests that as long as the jihad continues to receive funding, the MH can defend the most direct route to Zion effectively.

Therein lies the question. Does the jihad have sufficient funding to last beyond 898? The need for funding seems inexhaustible.

1) The MH and new formations of the AoG need to be equipped with artillery, infantry rifles, rockets, grenades and proper uniforms for winter and summer.

2) HMS Dreadnought will provide a roadmap to create much more seaworthy armored ships. Her guns will indicate better ways to make iron/steel guns. The remaining brown coco powder will suggest alternatives to the jihadi black powder. Absent reverse engineering all those elements, Dreadnought and the screw galleys won't be able to face the other Thunderers coming to the Gulf of Dohlar.

3) Adm Sarmount and Lt. Alpin-Ahrmahk, His Grace the Duke of Darcos will cut down on supplies moving from South Harchong to Gorath. I further suspect that Hektor and Nimue will be instrumental in securing the Western locks of the Salthar Canal in the next book. Those late leaving troops out of Cherayth last year will have arrived in the Gulf of Jahras already and are preparing to attack the canal.

4) The CoGA is indeed running out of money. They can confiscate more, but at what price? The more drastic the measure they employ, the more they will telegraph that they are losing. The greater the economic difficulty they face in contrast to Charis' prosperity, the more questions the loyalist laity will ask about God's lack of support of His Church. No matter what they do to continue the jihad, they have to build confidence or morale will plummet.

All these factors suggest the story will go in one of two directions. Either Clyntahn takes control of the jihad directly and offs Magwair or Magrwair and Duchairn succeed in offing Clyntahn. In another post I suggested Rayno was part of Nynian's action group. If I am right, Duchairn might well succeed in his efforts to kill Clyntahn. Otherwise, not likely at all.

I sort of wish that Clyntahn takes control directly and really mucks up the Loyalist nations' economies. Think about the St. Just period of the people's Republic of Haven and switch Clyntahn for St. Just. The principle difference is that St. Just wanted to help Rob s pierre reform Haven's economy and Clyntahn will move to centralize the planning and controls of the loyalits' economies.

Clyntahn's leading the jihad directly will much more quickly lead to widespread disillusionment of the loyalist laity. If Duchairn offs Clyntahn, things get a bit more dicey. The jihadi forces might well focus on defending against the allies moving west to Zion and offer a truce. The relative weapons parity and current numerical disparity may well suggest the Allies accept a truce to see if negotiations will leads somewhere. The Inner Circle might not agree, but Stonahr and the SSK (not in the Inner Circle) may well wish to see the CoGA reform significantly not see it destroyed.

If Clyntahn takes over directly, I see the Sleepers waking early somehow. If Duchairn offs Clyntahn, we get a hiatus until the scheduled awakening. Not sure which I want more? I am leaning towards a hiatus where Alahna is a junior lieutenant in the ICA or ICN, her younger brother just graduated the naval academy. He is joining Hektor's new command the 25,000 ton battleship Admiral Lock Island. This will be the first pure steel constructed ICN battlewagon armed with 5 double turret 14' BL rifles, 16 4' BL rifles and 4 21' torpedo tubes. For a better idea take a look at the HMS Audacious.


If Charis needs battleships at this point, as opposed to having won, it may have other problems.
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Re: Ramifications from HFQ- Speculations-Spoilers!
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:00 pm

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phillies wrote:
If Charis needs battleships at this point, as opposed to having won, it may have other problems.


Well, yes, I agree. This assumes that a lasting truce is achieved before Charis' final victory.
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Re: Ramifications from HFQ- Speculations-Spoilers!
Post by evilauthor   » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:04 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Killing Rayno would have made Clyntahn's leadership team LESS capable, why spare him? My gut tells me he is in some way aiding either the SSK or Helm Cleaver. Why is he helping is still a mystery.


This is actually discussed in HFQ. Killing Rayno would result in Clyntahn starting a vengeful bloodbath in Zion. So Helmcleaver wants to nail Clyntahn first before going after Rayno.

Meanwhile...

After HFQ, I've come to the conclusion that Charis WON'T be conquering Dohlar, and maybe not even invading it. Why? The way things are going for Dohlar, I'm pretty sure Weber is setting Dohlar up as Charis' primary post-war rival.

Think about it. Dohlar is the ONLY nation on the other side that has been able to hand Charis defeats. They're also the most innovative and competent and "Charis-like" of the opposing nations.

And after the battle of the Kaudzhu Narrows, Dohlar is now at what is likely to be it greatest position of strength against Charis that it can get. If anything, NOW is the best time to start looking for the best peace settlement with Charis it can get.

Assuming they can get past the Inquisitors in their midst of course.

Also, another point of interest: my respect for King Ranyld went up a notch. Yes, he's an incompetent King, but he KNOWS he's incompetent so instead of actually trying to run things, he gets out of the way and lets actually competent people like Duke Fern run the nation for him. Compare that with someone like Duke Harless who thought he was competent when he really wasn't.
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Re: Ramifications from HFQ- Speculations-Spoilers!
Post by Doomwhale   » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:06 pm

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I think Rayno is playing Beria to Clyntahn's Stalin. He is getting worried about the state of the Grand Inquisitor's mind, and eventually that fury is going to fall on himself.

MY bet is that self preservation is going to embolden the Archbishop of Chiang Wu to act. :?:
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Re: Ramifications from HFQ- Speculations-Spoilers!
Post by hanuman   » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:19 pm

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phillies wrote:
If Charis needs battleships at this point, as opposed to having won, it may have other problems.


The Reformation did not end international strife between the major European powers. Similarly, unless Merlin reveals the truth, I doubt that a Charisian victory over the CoGA will bring an end to geopolitical conflict. Safe hold will experience more wars, both secular and religious, which means that the arms race will continue, albeit with different players in place of the Temple...
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Re: Ramifications from HFQ- Speculations-Spoilers!
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:22 pm

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evilauthor wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Killing Rayno would have made Clyntahn's leadership team LESS capable, why spare him? My gut tells me he is in some way aiding either the SSK or Helm Cleaver. Why is he helping is still a mystery.


This is actually discussed in HFQ. Killing Rayno would result in Clyntahn starting a vengeful bloodbath in Zion. So Helmcleaver wants to nail Clyntahn first before going after Rayno.

snip


The logic is valid, but doesn't quite work for me.

Letting Clyntahn run amok will weaken his ability to sustain his keeping the CoGA within his grip. In that light killing Rayno will as I said weaken Clyntahn's leadership team and so weaken his ability to effectively resist his removal from power in time.

The Fist of God is willing to assassinate their enemies, but not willing to move in ways to make Clyntahn stage more auto de fe's? There are no more people left who openly oppose him. Starting another bloodbath WILL force Vicars to act or get targeted by Clyntahn's paranoia. Not inciting that paranoia makes him tougher to eliminate.

Rayno did something to telegraph his change in philosophy.
Last edited by PeterZ on Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ramifications from HFQ- Speculations-Spoilers!
Post by evilauthor   » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:22 pm

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hanuman wrote:
phillies wrote:
If Charis needs battleships at this point, as opposed to having won, it may have other problems.


The Reformation did not end international strife between the major European powers. Similarly, unless Merlin reveals the truth, I doubt that a Charisian victory over the CoGA will bring an end to geopolitical conflict. Safe hold will experience more wars, both secular and religious, which means that the arms race will continue, albeit with different players in place of the Temple...


Yep. And I think Dohlar is going to wind up as Charis' primary post war competition.

And let's face it, competition of this kind is good for Charis. We've already seen what happened to the Church (and many real life examples) when it was an absolute power with no competition whatsoever.
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