Treecat animal husbandry

JeffEngel wrote:Right. One of those early steps would be prepared ponds for more effective fishing; another may be excluding other predators so that they can keep more of the herbivores for themselves. Prepared ponds I think we could have missed - or, at any rate, I'm confident I could have missed and was wondering if anyone else caught them. I don't recall anything about rival exclusion. Hexapuma-bashing would be an instance of it, but they seem to prefer to avoid hexapumas (understandably!) when it is an option.

How about drying or salting meat for later consumption? It'd be another fairly early step, but I don't recall mention of winter stores including meat (fish included).

In the last anthology, there was the Short Story of Nimitz and Honor's Bonding - The story revolves around Nimitz and a younger scout checking the quality and quantity of seed pods in a section of their range. They observed the near-beaver dam and the fish in the pond, and discussed the interactions and environmental factors bringing about poor or good seasons of food.

I would say they are definitely in the final stages of hunter-gather or early farming - where they are aware of the factors making food available, but not quite to the stage where they are taking proactive steps to control said factors.

What cautions me about this whole thing is the concern that we might be trying to overly humanize the treecats. The cats have a natural instinct to hunt. Remember Nimitz deriving so much pleasure in being able to sneak up on the little hapless chipmunk? I have this same concern regarding the cats on Grayson. Just how much hunting is possible on Grayson that is able to support a growing clan in time?

I could see restocking natural ponds and lakes with fish. But as far as animal pens? Nah.

However, a planet wide reestablishing of local wildlife to restore the balance of a damaged food chain caused by the Yawata strike seems reasonable. I wonder just how much damage to the food chain was done from the Yawata strike.

Perhaps Honor should have a region set aside on Grayson, skydomed just for the cats.

cthia wrote:What cautions me about this whole thing is the concern that we might be trying to overly humanize the treecats. The cats have a natural instinct to hunt. Remember Nimitz deriving so much pleasure in being able to sneak up on the little hapless chipmunk? I have this same concern regarding the cats on Grayson. Just how much hunting is possible on Grayson that is able to support a growing clan in time?

I could see restocking natural ponds and lakes with fish. But as far as animal pens? Nah.

However, a planet wide reestablishing of local wildlife to restore the balance of a damaged food chain caused by the Yawata strike seems reasonable. I wonder just how much damage to the food chain was done from the Yawata strike.

Perhaps Honor should have a region set aside on Grayson, skydomed just for the cats.

When the Yawata strike was first mentioned, quite a few of us though that it might be the start of a diaspora for treecat clans. The general thought was there would (eventually) be 3 groups of clans, The Traditionalist clans who stayed in the trees and continued their current way of life, the Modernists who embraced mainstream Human culture, but in a treecat manner, and some Exodus Clans - those who decided that Sphinx was too small and delicate and left for other options. (these are my names for the groups)

Some of the exodus clans, Like the Grayson clan, would be integrated into human society. Others may petition (or ask other worlds to petition them) to move to compatible wildlife preserves and act as stewards, much like they have been doing on Sphinx.

The writing is definitely on the wall, and we know at least some of the treecats have seen it. It wouldn't surprise me if there were permanent clans on Gryphon and Manticore in a year or 2 and completely surprise me if they were not there in 10 years. Basilsik and San Martin may be too different for them to be comfortable in the wild, but other planets in the SEM may be perfectly suitable to them.

cthia wrote:What cautions me about this whole thing is the concern that we might be trying to overly humanize the treecats. The cats have a natural instinct to hunt. Remember Nimitz deriving so much pleasure in being able to sneak up on the little hapless chipmunk? I have this same concern regarding the cats on Grayson. Just how much hunting is possible on Grayson that is able to support a growing clan in time?

I could see restocking natural ponds and lakes with fish. But as far as animal pens? Nah.

However, a planet wide reestablishing of local wildlife to restore the balance of a damaged food chain caused by the Yawata strike seems reasonable. I wonder just how much damage to the food chain was done from the Yawata strike.

Perhaps Honor should have a region set aside on Grayson, skydomed just for the cats.

The question is why, if the damage done to sphinx results in treecat resettlement why go to Grayson the could settle on Manticore and Gryphon. I'm sure there would be plenty of room in QEIII and HH holdings on those planets. Also why dome an area just for treecats when there are probably plenty of domed cities by now with parks if the cats want to live there.

saber964 wrote:

cthia wrote:What cautions me about this whole thing is the concern that we might be trying to overly humanize the treecats. The cats have a natural instinct to hunt. Remember Nimitz deriving so much pleasure in being able to sneak up on the little hapless chipmunk? I have this same concern regarding the cats on Grayson. Just how much hunting is possible on Grayson that is able to support a growing clan in time?

I could see restocking natural ponds and lakes with fish. But as far as animal pens? Nah.

However, a planet wide reestablishing of local wildlife to restore the balance of a damaged food chain caused by the Yawata strike seems reasonable. I wonder just how much damage to the food chain was done from the Yawata strike.

Perhaps Honor should have a region set aside on Grayson, skydomed just for the cats.

The question is why, if the damage done to sphinx results in treecat resettlement why go to Grayson the could settle on Manticore and Gryphon. I'm sure there would be plenty of room in QEIII and HH holdings on those planets. Also why dome an area just for treecats when there are probably plenty of domed cities by now with parks if the cats want to live there.

I think textev explained well enough regarding the treecats unwillingness to leave all of their eggs in one basket - a decision made with uncharacteristic quickness in the world of the cats, brought on from their own feeling of mortality and vulnerability caused by the Yawata strike.

However, on Grayson you are referencing an average human park - designed for human enjoyment and practicality - of human leisure and pleasure. NOT coming anywhere near the huge hunting zones typified by cats.

And the cats may need space away from humans, for some traditional and private treecat culture. I am part Native American (not our label) and we still have the need for very private, classified cultural gatherings. So I have an inside track on understanding and realizing the possibility of this same basic need for cat clans. Privacy is important.

Theemile wrote:The writing is definitely on the wall, and we know at least some of the treecats have seen it. It wouldn't surprise me if there were permanent clans on Gryphon and Manticore in a year or 2 and completely surprise me if they were not there in 10 years.

There is already a Colony in the Harrington Duchy on Gryphon, IIRC. I believe that was from RFC in a forum post.

There is also a proto-colony at the Jason Bay House on Manticore.

Previous discussions about possible Treecat Colonies, Haven, Torch, and various Talbot Quadrant planets have been mentioned.

I think Haven is a very likely place for a "support enclave" of Treecat friends and families to happen -- the reason for not sending Treecats to New Potsdam was that there would not be sufficient Treecats around for the mental health needs of Bodyguard 'cats.

cthia wrote:What cautions me about this whole thing is the concern that we might be trying to overly humanize the treecats. The cats have a natural instinct to hunt. Remember Nimitz deriving so much pleasure in being able to sneak up on the little hapless chipmunk? I have this same concern regarding the cats on Grayson. Just how much hunting is possible on Grayson that is able to support a growing clan in time?

I could see restocking natural ponds and lakes with fish. But as far as animal pens? Nah.

They've got two needs there: the satisfaction of hunting, and the need to eat meat. It's an open question how deep that need to hunt goes. Females generally don't hunt, and not all males do. And as hunter-gatherers and obligate carnivores, they have to hunt. How much they'd feel that need if it weren't a normal part of their cultural experience is up for grabs - it went from a central part of human cultural experience to being one hobby among a modest segment of the population to positively revolting among another large segment in the developed world. So any speculation about how important it has to be among future treecats should consider the "not at all" possibility seriously, just as much as the "pretty important for a lot of treecats no matter what" one.

And when it comes to satisfying the meat need, domestication and hunting aren't either/or. They're certainly not among humans, though keeping hunting preserves and keeping farms and ranches do have some tensions. Sphinx winters are over a t-year long, and the hunting and fishing during them suck. Modest seasonal variations can make for long, hungry weeks. Whatever the treecats can do for regular meals and food storage will have some appeal. No treecat father is going to be so in love with the thrill of the hunt that he'd knowingly risk his kittens suffering that way if he could have spared them with some dull, routine tending of domestic livestock - if, when, and as it is an option.

JeffEngel wrote:

cthia wrote:What cautions me about this whole thing is the concern that we might be trying to overly humanize the treecats. The cats have a natural instinct to hunt. Remember Nimitz deriving so much pleasure in being able to sneak up on the little hapless chipmunk? I have this same concern regarding the cats on Grayson. Just how much hunting is possible on Grayson that is able to support a growing clan in time?

I could see restocking natural ponds and lakes with fish. But as far as animal pens? Nah.

They've got two needs there: the satisfaction of hunting, and the need to eat meat. It's an open question how deep that need to hunt goes. Females generally don't hunt, and not all males do. And as hunter-gatherers and obligate carnivores, they have to hunt. How much they'd feel that need if it weren't a normal part of their cultural experience is up for grabs - it went from a central part of human cultural experience to being one hobby among a modest segment of the population to positively revolting among another large segment in the developed world. So any speculation about how important it has to be among future treecats should consider the "not at all" possibility seriously, just as much as the "pretty important for a lot of treecats no matter what" one.

And when it comes to satisfying the meat need, domestication and hunting aren't either/or. They're certainly not among humans, though keeping hunting preserves and keeping farms and ranches do have some tensions. Sphinx winters are over a t-year long, and the hunting and fishing during them suck. Modest seasonal variations can make for long, hungry weeks. Whatever the treecats can do for regular meals and food storage will have some appeal. No treecat father is going to be so in love with the thrill of the hunt that he'd knowingly risk his kittens suffering that way if he could have spared them with some dull, routine tending of domestic livestock - if, when, and as it is an option.

I'm not so sure that females don't hunt:

In Enemy Hands, Chapter 1 wrote:In the end, the apparent social dynamics of the group had done it for her. The eldest of the three had become Hera, for it was obvious that every one of the males—except, perhaps, Nimitz—deferred utterly to her authority. If she was the head of this small slice of a clan, however, the 'cat Honor had dubbed Athena was obviously her exec and general advisor. The third female, Artemis, was barely older than Samantha, but she was also the feistiest of the ladies and the one who'd taken on the task of teaching the kittens the rudiments of hunting and stalking.

Boldface is my emphasis.

Likely dedicated 'Cat colonies:

1- Grayson, Harrington Steading. As the clan grows I'd expect Honor to build the cats a substantial dome and have it stocked with wild life for them.
2- Gryphon, Harrington Duchy. Again, look for Honor to have a good sized plot of land set aside for the 'Cats permanently.
3- Manticore, Crown Lands. Look for the Winton's to take the lead here, establishing a 'Cat preserve on part of the planet (a former wildlife preserve?)

4- Bolthole (provided the planet is good). Lots of RMN officers and staff will be heading there, and what better place to seed a 'Cat colony?
5- Haven. Again, lots of RMN officers and staff will be heading there.

Three other possibilities:
A- Beowulf. I don't know how much (if any) free land there is, but Beowulf would be a natural (and likely willing) location.
B- Torch. A world of freed genetic slaves in a tropical environment. Would be hot, but would likely have great hunting and plenty of land.
C- A Talbot planet, perhaps Montana? If the ranchers come to peace with the 'Cats, Montana might be an ideal place with its wide open lands and limited population.

Erls wrote:Likely dedicated 'Cat colonies:

1- Grayson, Harrington Steading. As the clan grows I'd expect Honor to build the cats a substantial dome and have it stocked with wild life for them.
2- Gryphon, Harrington Duchy. Again, look for Honor to have a good sized plot of land set aside for the 'Cats permanently.
3- Manticore, Crown Lands. Look for the Winton's to take the lead here, establishing a 'Cat preserve on part of the planet (a former wildlife preserve?)

4- Bolthole (provided the planet is good). Lots of RMN officers and staff will be heading there, and what better place to seed a 'Cat colony?
5- Haven. Again, lots of RMN officers and staff will be heading there.

Three other possibilities:
A- Beowulf. I don't know how much (if any) free land there is, but Beowulf would be a natural (and likely willing) location.
B- Torch. A world of freed genetic slaves in a tropical environment. Would be hot, but would likely have great hunting and plenty of land.
C- A Talbot planet, perhaps Montana? If the ranchers come to peace with the 'Cats, Montana might be an ideal place with its wide open lands and limited population.

I like the idea of a cat colony on Montana. It sounds like the cats and Montana's have a lot in common.
They'd either become besties of be at each others throats in no time.