Stories you wish were told?

Theemile wrote:So instead of rivers of information everywhere they look - Tree-cats might see a spinning kaleidoscope of flashing lights and hear awful, ear-piercing sounds ....

I doubt that it is nearly that bad. Sorrow Singer was able to use a video communications link to confer with Honor. Nimitz and Samantha, both, are able to program ship's lifts to get around ships unaided.

It would seem that Treecats can interpret at least basic imaging technology that doesn't require skilled interpretation -- like radar/lidar displays. Like speech and signing, I suspect that such use of technology is a relatively recent development; Early interactions with Treecats in the anthologies suggest that they didn't understand "mouth noises" or technology then and it took centuries before any sort of breakthrough.

Weird Harold wrote:

Theemile wrote:So instead of rivers of information everywhere they look - Tree-cats might see a spinning kaleidoscope of flashing lights and hear awful, ear-piercing sounds ....

I doubt that it is nearly that bad. Sorrow Singer was able to use a video communications link to confer with Honor. Nimitz and Samantha, both, are able to program ship's lifts to get around ships unaided.

It would seem that Treecats can interpret at least basic imaging technology that doesn't require skilled interpretation -- like radar/lidar displays. Like speech and signing, I suspect that such use of technology is a relatively recent development; Early interactions with Treecats in the anthologies suggest that they didn't understand "mouth noises" or technology then and it took centuries before any sort of breakthrough.

Actually, I agree completely, since it's written that way, but we can't assume that they (or any other species for that matter) hear/see everything we do. I'm reminded of a co-worker in college who worked with me at a Target store. We were always supposed to wear a "Target red" shirt. She was colorblind and was unable to see that her "red" shirt was a orange tomato soup color - or when she accidentially slipped on an identical green polo. For her, flashing green or red indicators would not necessarily indicate anything to her, where it would to someone else.

Another case in point, your average cell phone camera can see a wider set of light frequencies than we do. Take an IR TV remote and point it at the camera and press some buttons - you will see it as a violet-white light as the screen tries to translate those frequencies into something we can actually see. Those cameras can't see much more than we can - just 10-15 Hz or so more on each end of the visual spectrum, but the camera's visual processors deliberately translate it into something we can see.

The IR capability is, of course on purpose, to allow "night vision" - since we can't see light in these frequencies, it can put it's distance sensors and "night vision" shots in these frequency ranges and light up the room with IR LEDs and range finder lasers and we can't see them - except on our screen.

However, to someone with a just slightly wider set of vision frequencies, they would be blinded by the LEDs and the lasers when the camera turns on.

As I said previously, it's odd to find a close evolutionary species that uses their sensory perception the same way we do (with the same limitations and strengths), it would be very odd to find another extra-terrestrial species which could perceive the world EXACTLY as we do.

Theemile wrote:

Weird Harold"[quote="Theemile wrote:So instead of rivers of information everywhere they look - Tree-cats might see a spinning kaleidoscope of flashing lights and hear awful, ear-piercing sounds ....

I doubt that it is nearly that bad. Sorrow Singer was able to use a video communications link to confer with Honor. Nimitz and Samantha, both, are able to program ship's lifts to get around ships unaided.

It would seem that Treecats can interpret at least basic imaging technology that doesn't require skilled interpretation -- like radar/lidar displays. Like speech and signing, I suspect that such use of technology is a relatively recent development; Early interactions with Treecats in the anthologies suggest that they didn't understand "mouth noises" or technology then and it took centuries before any sort of breakthrough.

Actually, I agree completely, since it's written that way, but we can't assume that they (or any other species for that matter) hear/see everything we do. I'm reminded of a co-worker in college who worked with me at a Target store. We were always supposed to wear a "Target red" shirt. She was colorblind and was unable to see that her "red" shirt was a orange tomato soup color - or when she accidentially slipped on an identical green polo. For her, flashing green or red indicators would not necessarily indicate anything to her, where it would to someone else.

Another case in point, your average cell phone camera can see a wider set of light frequencies than we do. Take an IR TV remote and point it at the camera and press some buttons - you will see it as a violet-white light as the screen tries to translate those frequencies into something we can actually see. Those cameras can't see much more than we can - just 10-15 Hz or so more on each end of the visual spectrum, but the camera's visual processors deliberately translate it into something we can see.

The IR capability is, of course on purpose, to allow "night vision" - since we can't see light in these frequencies, it can put it's distance sensors and "night vision" shots in these frequency ranges and light up the room with IR LEDs and range finder lasers and we can't see them - except on our screen.

However, to someone with a just slightly wider set of vision frequencies, they would be blinded by the LEDs and the lasers when the camera turns on.

As I said previously, it's odd to find a close evolutionary species that uses their sensory perception the same way we do (with the same limitations and strengths), it would be very odd to find another extra-terrestrial species which could perceive the world EXACTLY as we do.[/quote]


It's a good idea, but IIRC cats see at different wavelengths than humans. In ABF Stephanie was speculating that the celery thief was seeing at higher frequencies than humans because they were avoiding IR laser trip-wires and built her trip-wires to use the lower end, in the UV spectrum.

saber964 wrote:

Theemile wrote:<snip>
Another case in point, your average cell phone camera can see a wider set of light frequencies than we do. Take an IR TV remote and point it at the camera and press some buttons - you will see it as a violet-white light as the screen tries to translate those frequencies into something we can actually see. Those cameras can't see much more than we can - just 10-15 Hz or so more on each end of the visual spectrum, but the camera's visual processors deliberately translate it into something we can see.

The IR capability is, of course on purpose, to allow "night vision" - since we can't see light in these frequencies, it can put it's distance sensors and "night vision" shots in these frequency ranges and light up the room with IR LEDs and range finder lasers and we can't see them - except on our screen.

However, to someone with a just slightly wider set of vision frequencies, they would be blinded by the LEDs and the lasers when the camera turns on.

As I said previously, it's odd to find a close evolutionary species that uses their sensory perception the same way we do (with the same limitations and strengths), it would be very odd to find another extra-terrestrial species which could perceive the world EXACTLY as we do.

It's a good idea, but IIRC cats see at different wavelengths than humans. In ABF Stephanie was speculating that the celery thief was seeing at higher frequencies than humans because they were avoiding IR laser trip-wires and built her trip-wires to use the lower end, in the UV spectrum.

So they WOULD be dazzled by our technologies rangefinders/ occupancy detectors/low light sensors. And monitors may be lousy with IR, overwhelming the images they are trying to show...or not. And we don't know if they could see violet on the other end of the spectrum - or if their vision is contiguous across our visual spectrum.

I know I've banged on this hard, and while obviously not in this case, it's very possible that an alien walking into a human ship couldn't even see or hear the controls, displays, and alarms - and vice versa. And what they do perceive would be very different.

Theemile wrote:
*Much snipping for readability*

So they WOULD be dazzled by our technologies rangefinders/ occupancy detectors/low light sensors. And monitors may be lousy with IR, overwhelming the images they are trying to show...or not. And we don't know if they could see violet on the other end of the spectrum - or if their vision is contiguous across our visual spectrum.

I know I've banged on this hard, and while obviously not in this case, it's very possible that an alien walking into a human ship couldn't even see or hear the controls, displays, and alarms - and vice versa. And what they do perceive would be very different.

This is actually touched on in Robert Asprins bug war book, The lizardman protagonists are coloublind but Genetically engineer themselves to see colour and it causes much confusion in the high command when the new generation show thier ability. Needless to say it becomes a prime issue if the bugs they are fighting can see colour as well.

As to the displays being completely unreadable I doubt that if they are a carbon based - Nitrogen/oxygen atmosphere lifeform. Basically the physics of spectal absorption mandate that you are limited to our range plus a bit in the UV range and there is very little spectrum below red where biologic sensors can pick up the radiation frequencies as they are too low energy to be detected by non elecronic means (photon energy levels vs carbon electron energy levels etc).

If it was possible to detect much beyond the current known visible band then nature would have found it after 4 billion years and inventing the eye at least 1/2 a dozen times independantly. Natural heat pits in snakes use a very differnt process to thier vision processes and are orders of magnitude more indistinct. (again physics of very long wavelengths mean that anything down there is basically an indistinct blur that cannon be focussed sharply)

Naturally all bets are of if you have a silicon based ammonium atmosphere critter but you probably have more gross compatability issues to talk about there.

I'd like to read about the anti-piracy efforts of the Republic of Sidemore Navy. Maybe have them come up with their own class of ship designed specifically for the task, since all the other navies use warships for this police function. A dedicated anti-piracy/slavery intelligence service would be cool too.

dscott8 wrote:I'd like to read about the anti-piracy efforts of the Republic of Sidemore Navy. Maybe have them come up with their own class of ship designed specifically for the task, since all the other navies use warships for this police function. A dedicated anti-piracy/slavery intelligence service would be cool too.

That could be interesting stories, but I'm not sure how different the ships would end up being.

At some point you have to be able to run down a pirate, which tend to use ships too small to be 1st line destroyers. So for any given compensator level they're nimbler and accelerate quicker than even a DD. So you probably don't want a huge ship.

And pirates may tend towards overgunned poorly defended designs, but you still need to be able to survive and win a missile fight. So you need reasonable point defense and some missile tubes (or pods; though you would still want at least 1 tube for firing warning shots).

You might well want more jail/brig space than normal, if you expect to be hauling in pirate crews. And you might want more medical staff and facilities than normal if you might be rescuing captured (and mistreated) spacers.

You probably don't need as deep a missile magazine as a true warship, but I'm not sure that's a great place to scrimp; because it limits your usefulness if you have to use your anti-piracy patrol ships to supplement your navy in an emergency.


I guess you could go radically the other way, and (if you've got access to Manticore-Lite tech) go for a somewhat smaller and much more survivable Wayfairer layout, where you use LACs to actually run down and force the pirates to surrender. But you can't go too small and still carry more than 1 or 2 LACs. If you dock nose first, a LAC is longer than a CA is wide; you'd probably want something in the 2 mton range as even an escort-CLAC. Still even if the ships aren't much different from everyone else's warships the training and culture of a anti-piracy force could still be an interesting difference to read about.

Frigates, like the ones Hauptmann built for the Anti-Slavery League, would work quite well for the purpose, I'd think. Not too expensive for a less prosperous single-system polity such as Sidemore, either.

Jonathan_S wrote:I guess you could go radically the other way, and (if you've got access to Manticore-Lite tech) go for a somewhat smaller and much more survivable Wayfairer layout, where you use LACs to actually run down and force the pirates to surrender. But you can't go too small and still carry more than 1 or 2 LACs.

Consider that Sidemore's navy started out as a short squadron of obsolete cruisers and half of Wayfarer's LAC complement with a couple dozen pods in orbit for close in defense.

Given that kind of starting point, with more advanced LACs than any other ship type, Sidemore might well go for a LAC heavy anti-pirate force with CLACs (maybe downsized to escort carrier size) and LACs as advanced as they can obtain or design.

A CLAC would provide all of the hospital, brig, boarding parties, etc mentioned above, with the speed and numerical advantage advanced LACs provide to bring pirates to bay.

How many Nimitz class carriers do you think should be stationed off the coast of Somalia to keep the seas free of the threat of 4 guys with AKs in a 20 foot speed boat?