[HFQ] SPOILERS -- Why didn't Merlin?

Yes I got the book early and about 3/4 of the way through. Long time lurker of these forums.

I'm still reading the book, but the part I want to discuss happens after the "mudbank" sea battle.












-----SPOILERS----------












----You HAVE BEEN WARNED







So the Dohlarns got themselves a "ironclad" and I can't just help that it doesn't really make a whole lot sense. Oh I understand the crew died, but the thing was rigged to blow, and I can't really understand why Merlin couldn't have detonated one of his SNARCs to "finish what the crew was planning to do". This is aptly frustrating when the inner circle is discussing what should be done if the "prisoners" get sent to inquisition again... that Merlin might blow the magazine if they are sent by ship.

I can't help but think the situation is forced by glorious author for the other side to have a fighting chance on the navy side. It seems forced.

Be far the most annoying "Deus ex machina" twists are from RFC forcing help/tech to the CoGA. Same thing with how the CoGA got the plans for the new puddling hearths and steam engine.

No, the "they didn't knoooooooow it would be so dangerous in Siddarmark" response was... not even remotely believable.

As to your other point, there is ZERO rational reason for Merlin to not have blown it up. NONE, ZERO... capturing an EoC warship isn't helping ANYONE break the chains against innovation... it just gets more of "his" ( that he supposedly loves ) people killed.

That said, I am as big a David Weber addict as the rest of you.

Just a curiosity question here...

Did the Dohlarians manage to come up with an ironclad on their own, or did they entrap one already good to go?

Don

n7axw wrote:Just a curiosity question here...

Did the Dohlarians manage to come up with an ironclad on their own, or did they entrap one already good to go?

Don

Spoiler space
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They board and capture HMS Dreadnaught. It was acting as a rearguard against about half the entire Dohlaran navy in order to allow a badly outnumbered detachment of regular ICN galleons to escape. There were plans to blow the magazine rather than allow the ship to be captured, but the man assigned to carry out the task is killed before he can do it.

Having an ironclad doesn't change the calculus of the war. Merlin et al knows it is in the hands of the CoGA, so it won't be a surprise if they turn around and use it in battle. CoGA knew, vaguely, how the things worked.

Yes, there will be technology gained, but the CoGA would have to implement that tech. Learn to build the ships, make the rounds for guns, etc. Not a quick occurrence.

In short, it doesn't give the CoGA much of a fighting chance to do anything. It will delay what Charis might do, in some instances. Could be a thorn in Charis's side, but that's about it.

Dreadnaught was one of the Rotweillers. So the Dohlarans didn't come up with anything startlingly new in technology with the possible exception of breech loading rifled cannon which admittedly is serious enough...

More to the point, Dreadnaught was Sharpfield's flagship. Does he survive?

Don

n7axw wrote:Dreadnaught was one of the Rotweillers. So the Dohlarans didn't come up with anything startlingly new in technology with the possible exception of breech loading rifled cannon which admittedly is serious enough...

More to the point, Dreadnaught was Sharpfield's flagship. Does he survive?

Don

Well, since you just said you don't mind spoilers in another thread...




stop now if you change your mind


...he was not on board. In fact, are you sure it was his flagship? Because I don't remember him being on Dreadnaught at all in the book.

BTW, I have been meaning to ask: what does n7axw stand for?

Isilith wrote:Be far the most annoying "Deus ex machina" twists are from RFC forcing help/tech to the CoGA. Same thing with how the CoGA got the plans for the new puddling hearths and steam engine.

No, the "they didn't knoooooooow it would be so dangerous in Siddarmark" response was... not even remotely believable.

As to your other point, there is ZERO rational reason for Merlin to not have blown it up. NONE, ZERO... capturing an EoC warship isn't helping ANYONE break the chains against innovation... it just gets more of "his" ( that he supposedly loves ) people killed.

That said, I am as big a David Weber addict as the rest of you.

This is sort of the most frustrating "exchange" of technology from the Charis --> the CoGA. In the other cases it was a bit more believable IMO (more of an ignorance -- which knowing were Merlin came from is not very believable) But we know the SNARCs can explode (Merlin contemplates making Hector a foot shorter by exploding one), using this feature to self destruct the ship it doesn't really have any downsides (well besides the 4 people who survived the battle). The ship was already rigged, and the ship is in a battle with lots of incendiaries going off... not the first time a ship magazine went boom. The reason I am frustrated is that a tool in the toolbox was not used, when a perfect opportunity to use that tool arose.

The only Handwavium I can think of that explain why this tool wasn't used, was the Grenade destroyed the SNARC that would have self destructed without leaving witnesses.

It's the call sign of his radio station.

Don't have a current Handbook, so can't say exactly what area is included, but N7 is a US amateur radio station, probably in South Dakota. Alpha Xray Whiskey is his personal identifier - technically, the identifier for his station, but he'll use it when moving around. [usually he'll identify the station he's working from too, so it can get kinda complicated]

Henry Brown wrote:

n7axw wrote:Dreadnaught was one of the Rotweillers. So the Dohlarans didn't come up with anything startlingly new in technology with the possible exception of breech loading rifled cannon which admittedly is serious enough...

More to the point, Dreadnaught was Sharpfield's flagship. Does he survive?

Don

Well, since you just said you don't mind spoilers in another thread...




stop now if you change your mind


...he was not on board. In fact, are you sure it was his flagship? Because I don't remember him being on Dreadnaught at all in the book.

BTW, I have been meaning to ask: what does n7axw stand for?

Isilith wrote:Be far the most annoying "Deus ex machina" twists are from RFC forcing help/tech to the CoGA. Same thing with how the CoGA got the plans for the new puddling hearths and steam engine.

No, the "they didn't knoooooooow it would be so dangerous in Siddarmark" response was... not even remotely believable.

As to your other point, there is ZERO rational reason for Merlin to not have blown it up. NONE, ZERO... capturing an EoC warship isn't helping ANYONE break the chains against innovation... it just gets more of "his" ( that he supposedly loves ) people killed.

That said, I am as big a David Weber addict as the rest of you.

Had not considered that. And now that you mention it, I'm not sure why Merlin didn't have a remote complete the destruction of HMS Dreadnaught during the battle. Unless he was caught by surprise and there was not one in place to do so.

Now that being said, I'd like to note that Merlin can *STILL* destroy Dreadnaught at any time of his choosing. By at least 2 different methods I can think of off the top of my head. The first method is what you mentioned: sneaking a remote into the magazine and blowing up the ship. He could still do this. Whenever he wants.

The 2nd method is the recon skimmer. Remember the scene near the end of HFQ when the skimmer utterly destroys a galleon with a 500 pound laser guided bomb? That same scene mentions that they had created a number of high explosive bombs. In different sizes, with the largest being 2000 pounds. I'd say a 2000 pound smart bomb could kill Dreadnaught at any time...