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Duchess of ?

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Re: Duchess of ?
Post by hanuman   » Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:04 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:
Phalanx wrote:My question is how does the Crown define the "landless lords".For exmaple, does a person who gets a grant to some of the broadcast spectrum become the "Earl of Landing City Telecom"?

IIRC the decendants to peopel who got exclusively "landless" lands (HD spectrum, mineral rights to parts of the asteroid belt, etc) tend to pick up (marry into) actual landed titles for the prestige value.

And the earlier Aristocrats, if they took spectrum or rights, were likely to take it in combination with a small named parcel of land. So they'd have physical land at least large enough for a residence befitting their rank/stature while the bulk of the "estate" was the more virtual "lands".


But if you did get a pure "virtual" estate I'd hope that you'd be allowed to work with the Crown to decide on a suitable name for your virtual "lands". I'd guess it wouldn't be "Landing City Telecom" since the Telecom company wouldn't be founded yet when the spectrum was originally granted. And presumably you aren't stuck with "Earl of 88-90 Mhz" - so a pure spectrum allocation seems like an ideal place to come up with an interesting (but acceptable) name for your title.


I'd think that the original newly-ennobled individuals would take their family names as their title, in the case of purely 'virtual' lands.
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Re: Duchess of ?
Post by Maldorian   » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:10 am

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Speaking of land and Lord´s brings a question back in my mind! Has any noble with the exeption of the Empress more than one Peerage?

Remember: Honor is married with Earl Hamish Alexander. Honor´s son is the oldest child of Hamish and the oldest and only child of Honor, so, Honor´s son Raoul would be in the furure the Duke of Harrington and the Earl of Alexander (or what name Hamish´s earldom has).

That could be a Problem in the house of Lord´s, because he could vote 2 times, one vote for every Peerage! Maybe there is a law that says, that a Lord has to/could split up his peerages. Would make Honor´s son Raoul the Duke of Harrington and his half-sister the Earl of Alexander.
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Re: Duchess of ?
Post by munroburton   » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:10 pm

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Maldorian wrote:Speaking of land and Lord´s brings a question back in my mind! Has any noble with the exeption of the Empress more than one Peerage?

Remember: Honor is married with Earl Hamish Alexander. Honor´s son is the oldest child of Hamish and the oldest and only child of Honor, so, Honor´s son Raoul would be in the furure the Duke of Harrington and the Earl of Alexander (or what name Hamish´s earldom has).

That could be a Problem in the house of Lord´s, because he could vote 2 times, one vote for every Peerage! Maybe there is a law that says, that a Lord has to/could split up his peerages. Would make Honor´s son Raoul the Duke of Harrington and his half-sister the Earl of Alexander.


Yes, in one of the short stories it was confirmed there are aristocrats with multiple titles. Anthony Agursky was known as the Baron of Novaya Tyumen as a courtesy title as his father had an Earldom(as well as the aforementioned Barony).

For those who don't know, the heir is permitted to use the second highest title held by the incumbent as a courtesy. Unless it's the same name(eg. Marquess Salisbury and Earl Salisbury), in which case go to the next lower title(if one is held) or pretend it doesn't exist.

So, when Honor and Hamish eventually pass on, Raoul's heir would be known as the Earl/Countess White Haven, while Raoul himself is referred to as Duke Harrington.

Now, what makes this tricky is that Raoul currently has a split succession. One heir is Katherine, of course, who is next in line for White Haven. The heir to the Harrington Steading and the Duchy is Faith, Honor's sister.
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Re: Duchess of ?
Post by drothgery   » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:35 pm

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munroburton wrote:Now, what makes this tricky is that Raoul currently has a split succession. One heir is Katherine, of course, who is next in line for White Haven. The heir to the Harrington Steading and the Duchy is Faith, Honor's sister.
It's only potentially tricky. If nothing happens to Raoul before he fathers a child, then things straighten out.
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Re: Duchess of ?
Post by munroburton   » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:17 pm

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drothgery wrote:
munroburton wrote:Now, what makes this tricky is that Raoul currently has a split succession. One heir is Katherine, of course, who is next in line for White Haven. The heir to the Harrington Steading and the Duchy is Faith, Honor's sister.
It's only potentially tricky. If nothing happens to Raoul before he fathers a child, then things straighten out.


Not quite. That split will always potentially exist if all of Honor's direct descendants buy the farm without furthering the succession.
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Re: Duchess of ?
Post by Fox2!   » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:08 pm

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[quote="munroburton"] Discussion of the detailed inheritance of White Haven and Harrington snipped.

Not quite. That split will always potentially exist if all of Honor's direct descendants buy the farm without furthering the succession.[/quotej

Hamish could always split the succession himself, granting White Haven to Katherine, while Raoul keeps both Harrington titles.

Does Faith end up with the Harrington freehold as a consolation prize?
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Re: Duchess of ?
Post by crewdude48   » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:29 am

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Fox2! wrote:Hamish could always split the succession himself, granting White Haven to Katherine, while Raoul keeps both Harrington titles.


As far as we know, no he couldn't. The heir is the heir, and the current holder can't jump him. Unless you have word of Weber? Now, Raoul could abdicate White Haven before he has an heir, giving it to his sister if he wanted to.
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Re: Duchess of ?
Post by niethil   » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:48 am

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The title presumably goes with the land. It depends on how the Manticoran rules for writing wills work, and their interactions with the rules for titles. And it might also depends on the marriage contract.

Are there exams for titles like that ? Only for the Crown, right ?
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Re: Duchess of ?
Post by munroburton   » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:02 pm

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crewdude48 wrote:
Fox2! wrote:Hamish could always split the succession himself, granting White Haven to Katherine, while Raoul keeps both Harrington titles.


As far as we know, no he couldn't. The heir is the heir, and the current holder can't jump him. Unless you have word of Weber? Now, Raoul could abdicate White Haven before he has an heir, giving it to his sister if he wanted to.


That would be one way to spread the titles around a bit. But I suspect it requires that Hamish die first(which he will, if they both die of old age). And then Raoul to abdicate the White Haven earldom before he inherits the Harrington duchy.
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Re: Duchess of ?
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:49 am

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I was surprised that the "territory" she was given did not include some of the crown preserve on Sphinx




saber964 wrote:IMHO the geographical name of some of the peerages were named by the first owners before they became peerage titles because that's what they named their land holdings or they could have named them after terrain features. Look at some of the estates in the US currently like Hearst San Simeon, Washington Mount Vernon, Jefferson Monticello, T Roosevelt Saginaw Hill.
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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