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Re: MAlign Tradecraft | |
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by kzt » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:31 pm | |
kzt
Posts: 11360
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It's much bigger. Like 64x. I think it was x4 in every dimension compared to a 40 foot ISO container.
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Re: MAlign Tradecraft | |
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by Somtaaw » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:14 pm | |
Somtaaw
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yeah I'd checked what existing shipping containers were (40 footers are only about 12m long, by 2 by 2 give or take).
Or wait, Norbrandt only got containers that were around 30 feet wasn't it? So about the same size of current containers because that was all her underperforming helicopters could handle. Well, that and they didn't know they'd get free anti-grav harnesses built in to help unload and move them. |
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Re: MAlign Tradecraft | |
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by Theemile » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:36 pm | |
Theemile
Posts: 5241
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Don't forget "wheels within wheels" - Harahap was a Solarian Gendarm - and used that codename while a gendarme. Even though he's saying he's a Manty - he has been saying he's a Manty, Havenite, Andie, or Erewhonese for years. If someone does trace it back to him and blow his cover, they're going to find a Solarian Counter-terrorist guy whose job it was to root out the same terrorists he meeting with now - pretending to be, well a Manty, Havenite, Andie,.... Is he still working for the Solarianss - is it an internal Solarian plot? Interdepartmental fighting? Of course he stil lworking with the Gendarms - He didn't even quit - he's still on "leave". Because Freud was right - sometimes a Cigar is just a cigar. It is too easy to get turned around in the Hall of mirrors. ******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships." |
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Re: MAlign Tradecraft | |
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by Whitecold » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:29 am | |
Whitecold
Posts: 173
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For me the worst example of MAlign covert ops is not Harahap picking the same name over and over again or providing the second wave of resistance movements contacts that actually exist (Westman), but their use of their viral nanotech.
They operate it strictly under the principle of "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." It is not as undetectable as the MAlign believes, the havenites picked up on some DNA right on the first use when Gosclaude got killed, and speculated about the correct conclusion already. What they utterly fail to consider is to provide a plausible explanation for any of their assassinations. Even without any trace of how it was done, the absence of any explanation leaves an obvious pattern. The Webster assassination is especially bad, Dettweiler orders to use someone from the Havenite staff, to make it obvious, and calls the Manties neobarbs on top. He should know better than consider either Manties or Havenites brain-dead, and everyone who actually thinks about wonder why Haven would use someone from their own embassy or why anyone would accept such a suicide mission. |
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Re: MAlign Tradecraft | |
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by Somtaaw » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:11 pm | |
Somtaaw
Posts: 1204
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I believe Viktor Catchat and Anton Zilwicki both refer to that, as the Hall of Mirrors. Getting into double-, and triple-blind mentalities, which Viktor is actually far worse than Anton at doing such. Two full Havenite governments that not only happily, but GLEEFULLY, used assassination as an everyday tool, and the third and latest government with a self-admitted terrorist/freedom fighter who also used assassination back in the day, you'd jump to conclusions and assume the simplest answer. And the Havenites could protest all they want about being setup, because they couldn't possibly be that stupid after centuries of assassination to be THAT obvious, right? And Dettweiler was basically counting on that, and he really needed to try and keep Manticore and Haven from agreeing to their peace treaty, which is why he agreed to the Webster assassination. He didn't want Manticore surging into Talbott, and he most definitely didn't want peace between the only navies with podnoughts and years of combat experience becoming peaceful. |
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Re: MAlign Tradecraft | |
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by Whitecold » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:40 pm | |
Whitecold
Posts: 173
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For me this does not sound like any intricately planned game of double/triple blindside but plain arrogance on the MAligns part. |
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Re: MAlign Tradecraft | |
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by Somtaaw » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:45 pm | |
Somtaaw
Posts: 1204
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Yeah, but check the outcome, during the meeting between Elizabeth, Willie and Hamish Alexander, Honor, and I think Emily was there too, maybe one or two others as well. They were looking at the outcome, and double- and triple-thinking it.... why would Haven be so utterly stupid in an assassination, were they trying to do a double-bluff? so on and so forth. I'll have to re-read the entire thing again, AAC, which chapter? |
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Re: MAlign Tradecraft | |
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by Somtaaw » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:14 pm | |
Somtaaw
Posts: 1204
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Hmm, I'd left a bookmark very nearby these points it seems. Perfect..
Bardasano briefing Dettweiler on why the assassination attempt failed on Honor, and the reasoning (namely: oh look, Haven's at the assassination game again!!)
The very same meeting, only a few paragraphs later.
The entire conversation boiled down to... well, we tried (and failed) to assassinate Honor, but at least it looks like Haven did it.... and regarding Talbott, we're doing a great job of making Solarians think Manticore's being big, bad and evil. But Webster is a pain, and we didn't fully achieve the objective by trying to kill Honor. So let's be really, REALLY obvious that Haven is behind this assassination, kill Webster, and remove two thorns with one kill. |
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Re: MAlign Tradecraft | |
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by Whitecold » Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:40 pm | |
Whitecold
Posts: 173
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I'm not questioning the choice of Webster as a target, but that they decided to use the nanotech. I'm sure they could have gotten a hitman and framed Haven in a better concealed way.
In the end it only works out like they wanted because Elizabeth and Elizabeth alone is freaking pissed at Haven. Betting on the emotional response of a single person is not a safe bet to make. |
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Re: MAlign Tradecraft | |
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by Somtaaw » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:16 pm | |
Somtaaw
Posts: 1204
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Re-quoting and bolding for emphasis. They attempted to kill Honor with her own flag lieutenant, and make it look like it was a Havenite operation... and they succeeded in making it look like exactly what they wanted. But to drive the point home, and have the side-perk of stopping the counter-PR that Webster was doing, they planned to kill Webster too. In At All Costs, chapter 50 at the end, was the meeting dicussing the Webster assassination. Within less than 24 hours from Webster being shot and killed, the attempt on Ruth happens (AAC, chapter 51), and the full house meeting in chapter 52 with the full "Elizabeth inner council". Lord Grantville (Willy Alexander), Hamish Alexander, Honor, Anthony Langtry, and Elizabeth herself. Zero doubts at this time, that all 3 attempts (Honor, Webster, and Ruth) were Havenite operations. And Hamish had the following musing during that meeting:
Which pushes it into the Hall of Mirrors, could a nation with almost a century of assassination experience REALLY be that stupid, they'd use their own man in a suicide assassination? Normally, you'd think no, but then as I originally pointed out... you fall into double-bluff? Haven actually was behind it, but used their own made so they can protest they're being framed. Which they did (and truthfully) but nobody believes them, because it's Haven. |
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