Mesa occupation

JohnRoth wrote:

saber964 wrote:Why would the MOF need to wait for Jeremy X to show up they already have the CinC TMF GEN Thandi Palane and a loud shout away the de facto Crown Princess of Torch Helen Zilwiki at Mobius.

General Paline is the head of Torch's armed forces. She is not a genetic slave, she is not a Ballroom member and, while she can (and undoubtedly will) give Admiral Gold Peak her advice as the senior Torch official present, she is not the government of Torch.

Helen Zilwiki has nothing to do with Torch. Her position with respect to the Torch monarchy is undefined, to say the least.

Jeremy X, on the other hand, is a native of Mesa, is a genetic slave (an entertainer line, to be specific), was the head of the Audubon Ballroom, and is known by reputation to just about everyone. He represents the rebellion among the slaves.

Thandi is also the woman who fought right alongside the Seccies at Neue Rostock when she had no need to do such a thing at all. She also gave up a cushy position with the Solarians, who are very much regarded as the galaxy's oppressors by the slaves and freed slaves, to throw her lot in with them.

As for Helen, she does have a lot to do with Torch. Not only is she the Crown Princess, at least until Berry and Hugh have a child, but without Berry the Torch project might very well have been a failure - and without Helen, there would have been no Berry to ensure the success of Torch. Don't think for a moment that the story of Helen's rescue of Berry and her brother hasn't been widely distributed among the oppressed peoples of the galaxy by now. That is a powerful thing.

Not saying either woman will be involved, just that both of them have a truly powerful status among Mesa's Seccies and slaves.

hanuman wrote:Don't think for a moment that the story of Helen's rescue of Berry and her brother hasn't been widely distributed among the oppressed peoples of the galaxy by now. That is a powerful thing.

Who is the most heroic fighter in the overthrow of the genocidal government of Rwanda? How come that doesn't ring a bell with you? How about the most effective Croatian general in the war with the Serbs?

There are lots of great stories out there and that is on one planet. With 2000 or so in the SL?

kzt wrote:

Relax wrote:A PDLC should be much smaller than that.

After going through the atmosphere? If you want to kill everyone in a km or two radius from radiation poisoning over the next few weeks I suppose it would serve.

Radiation, weeks, say what? Instantaneous if you turn the atmosphere into plasma. Long term? From what? Gotta get the neutrons from somewhere, or strip a proton without also stripping the electrons.

Laser can go through the atmosphere as if it is not even there if you pick the correct frequency. The reality, is the PDLC will be a multi frequency otherwise, a missile will simply be hardened against said frequency and its usefulness becomes nil.

No reason, said multi frequency laser, cannot turn off all frequencies other than that which is desired. After all to fire such a laser to begin with, one must run it through a VERY precisely timed/fired computer. All it would require is a very simple Software addendum to NOT fire all the emitters in question, but rather only the desired emitter frequency.

kzt wrote:

hanuman wrote:Don't think for a moment that the story of Helen's rescue of Berry and her brother hasn't been widely distributed among the oppressed peoples of the galaxy by now. That is a powerful thing.

Who is the most heroic fighter in the overthrow of the genocidal government of Rwanda? How come that doesn't ring a bell with you? How about the most effective Croatian general in the war with the Serbs?

There are lots of great stories out there and that is on one planet. With 2000 or so in the SL?

Reputation means jack all, if you do not have the guantlet to back it up or if no even knows the gauntlet exists. Guaranteed to be tested multiple times especially when the gauntlet is not seen but only heard about.

Relax wrote:Laser can go through the atmosphere as if it is not even there if you pick the correct frequency. The reality, is the PDLC will be a multi frequency otherwise, a missile will simply be hardened against said frequency and its usefulness becomes nil.

Nope. They emit x-rays, which are pretty difficult to harden against. However, x-rays are terrible at penetrating the atmosphere. "An X-ray photon passing through the atmosphere will encounter as many atoms as it would in passing through a 5 meter (16 ft) thick wall of concrete!"

See "An Introduction to Modern Starship Armor Design"

"Early space energy weapons used photons in the ultraviolet, visible, infrared, and even the radio range. These wavelengths are impractical to focus at contemporary combat ranges so modern weapons use shorter wavelength photons in the X-ray to gamma ray range. Indeed, modern space weapon lasers are so commonly X-ray lasers that the term “laser” is generally synonymous with “xraser” in naval parlance. Their rarer gamma emitting cousins are called “grasers.” Both of these words have their obvious origin with the ancient “laser” though the fact that many such weapons do not operate on the principle of “stimulated emission” is generally forgotten."

kzt wrote:

Relax wrote:Laser can go through the atmosphere as if it is not even there if you pick the correct frequency. The reality, is the PDLC will be a multi frequency otherwise, a missile will simply be hardened against said frequency and its usefulness becomes nil.

Nope. They emit x-rays, which are pretty difficult to harden against. However, x-rays are terrible at penetrating the atmosphere. "An X-ray photon passing through the atmosphere will encounter as many atoms as it would in passing through a 5 meter (16 ft) thick wall of concrete!"

See "An Introduction to Modern Starship Armor Design"

"Early space energy weapons used photons in the ultraviolet, visible, infrared, and even the radio range. These wavelengths are impractical to focus at contemporary combat ranges so modern weapons use shorter wavelength photons in the X-ray to gamma ray range. Indeed, modern space weapon lasers are so commonly X-ray lasers that the term “laser” is generally synonymous with “xraser” in naval parlance. Their rarer gamma emitting cousins are called “grasers.” Both of these words have their obvious origin with the ancient “laser” though the fact that many such weapons do not operate on the principle of “stimulated emission” is generally forgotten."

That being said, still will not create the long term radiation you are talking about. Nitrogen/Xrays are fine. Same goes for Oxygen. So.... What am I missing here?

Relax wrote:That being said, still will not create the long term radiation you are talking about. Nitrogen/Xrays are fine. Same goes for Oxygen. So.... What am I missing here?

You pour enough x-rays into the atmosphere via an x-ray laser you will get some at the surface. It will be a lot less than what you started with and won't be coherent or well focused, but you will get, given the power level of honorverse weapons, quite a bit of energy in the form of x-rays over a wide area. And I've read that having full body irradiation by high powered x-ray sources is generally considered not conducive to your continued health or longevity.

Relax wrote:So.... What am I missing here?

The infodump linked earlier where RFC explicitly stated that X-ray "lasers" used from space (in the Honorverse) would disperse and cause extensive radiation damage over a large area?

The thing is occupation might not be that long. the underworld is the only thing the down trodded have that could help eastablish control, fortunatly they are not that bad. They ccould make a deal with the alliance, they get legitamised, but they have to kepp to the rules. That way the alliance can concentrate on the alignment and the wormhole.

On a sample of one? I'm suggest avoiding drawing conclusions from that. People don't get to be leaders of criminal gangs by being nice or forgiving.

It's like meeting Reinhard Heydrich and being impressed by his musical skill, his patriotism and his leadership. Which were all true, but not what he is remembered for.