Airships?

Dilandu wrote:

n7axw wrote:Recover the ballons? By pulling in the tether lines...

Don

I just went to a presentation by the official historian of the National Reconnaissance Office. US photo intelligence on the USSR began with high-altitude balloons inserted into the jet stream so they would cross the denied areas taking pictures automatically. The success rate was low but infinitely better than nothing.

I think n7axw mean that the church balloons don't have to go up to the jet stream level. Altitude of 300 to 1000 ft would propably do. The problem I see is not the balloons but the photography. Earliers camera models required that the camera didn't move for some time, same for the things wich image you were taking...
They would have to developp photography from the earliest models to more advenced ones with incredible speed.
We know that the empire as means to boost their speed. The COGA doesn't. The great inquisitor would have an heart attack if they tried.

...

If it does go like that, then I suppose we could in fact let the COGA try it. But that would drive us toward the "How shall the grand inquisitor die" Topic...

Dilandu wrote:

n7axw wrote:Recover the ballons? By pulling in the tether lines...

Don

I just went to a presentation by the official historian of the National Reconnaissance Office. US photo intelligence on the USSR began with high-altitude balloons inserted into the jet stream so they would cross the denied areas taking pictures automatically. The success rate was low but infinitely better than nothing.

So? You just use long tether lines...

Don

Airships would be a good vector for paratrooping. They still have to recreate the army rangers don't they ?

I would see it as a perfect way to capture/free the inquisition camps. Maybe with an amphiby/land operation for support. A way to prevent the warden/guards killing the inmates about to be freed.



"Everithing is fine, we are surrounded".

Xuan-Wu wrote:Airships would be a good vector for paratrooping. They still have to recreate the army rangers don't they ?

I would see it as a perfect way to capture/free the inquisition camps. Maybe with an amphiby/land operation for support. A way to prevent the warden/guards killing the inmates about to be freed.



"Everithing is fine, we are surrounded".

The question is, how many paratroopers you need to lift? Hm... the Church wouldn't have neither airplanes nor efficient anti-aircraft guns for quite a long time, so the 500-1000 meters altitude would be perfectly safe from any ground fire. So, we could trade the altitude for cargo...

Well, LZ-10 was capable of taking about 20 passenges onboard. Of course the paratroopers didn't need a lot of accomodation, but they are heavier than the average passengers. So about 25 paratroopers on the 17800 cubic meters rigid airship.

But Charis could not made aluminium... so, the Schutte-Lanz type, probably. Something like SL-2, with plywood construction. She could carry about 8 tons of payload and the speed of 88 km/h. Quite a ship, actually. Just imagine her -

http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/wp-content/ ... ppelin.jpg

- flying over Zion in daylight...

It's not the cameras that are a problem, it's the film. Fast films depend on mixing organic dyes into the emulsion that nobody on Safehold can synthesise yet, and probably won't in quantity for 10-20 years. The best developers are also complex organics, although IIRC for one of them the necessary precursors are found in coal tar.

Xuan-Wu wrote:
I think n7axw mean that the church balloons don't have to go up to the jet stream level. Altitude of 300 to 1000 ft would propably do. The problem I see is not the balloons but the photography. Earliers camera models required that the camera didn't move for some time, same for the things wich image you were taking...
They would have to developp photography from the earliest models to more advenced ones with incredible speed.
We know that the empire as means to boost their speed. The COGA doesn't. The great inquisitor would have an heart attack if they tried.

...

If it does go like that, then I suppose we could in fact let the COGA try it. But that would drive us toward the "How shall the grand inquisitor die" Topic...

Dilandu wrote:The question is, how many paratroopers you need to lift? Hm... the Church wouldn't have neither airplanes nor efficient anti-aircraft guns for quite a long time, so the 500-1000 meters altitude would be perfectly safe from any ground fire. So, we could trade the altitude for cargo...

Well, LZ-10 was capable of taking about 20 passenges onboard. Of course the paratroopers didn't need a lot of accomodation, but they are heavier than the average passengers. So about 25 paratroopers on the 17800 cubic meters rigid airship.

But Charis could not made aluminium... so, the Schutte-Lanz type, probably. Something like SL-2, with plywood construction. She could carry about 8 tons of payload and the speed of 88 km/h. Quite a ship, actually. Just imagine her -

http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/wp-content/ ... ppelin.jpg

- flying over Zion in daylight...

Actually - can you imagine if they just base jumped into combat?

Add some deer whistles to the uniform and the screaming as they fell would definitely have an impact...

However, if you were just looking for shock and awe - you could use steam catapults to launch the troopers.. it would be more like a 'fling' than a combat drop - but it would have close to the same effect based on the way it would change the fluidity of the front lines of combat.

Of course - you would never get me to try either option...

shaeun wrote:

Dilandu wrote:The question is, how many paratroopers you need to lift? Hm... the Church wouldn't have neither airplanes nor efficient anti-aircraft guns for quite a long time, so the 500-1000 meters altitude would be perfectly safe from any ground fire. So, we could trade the altitude for cargo...

Well, LZ-10 was capable of taking about 20 passenges onboard. Of course the paratroopers didn't need a lot of accomodation, but they are heavier than the average passengers. So about 25 paratroopers on the 17800 cubic meters rigid airship.

But Charis could not made aluminium... so, the Schutte-Lanz type, probably. Something like SL-2, with plywood construction. She could carry about 8 tons of payload and the speed of 88 km/h. Quite a ship, actually. Just imagine her -

http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/wp-content/ ... ppelin.jpg

- flying over Zion in daylight...

Actually - can you imagine if they just base jumped into combat?

Add some deer whistles to the uniform and the screaming as they fell would definitely have an impact...

However, if you were just looking for shock and awe - you could use steam catapults to launch the troopers.. it would be more like a 'fling' than a combat drop - but it would have close to the same effect based on the way it would change the fluidity of the front lines of combat.

Of course - you would never get me to try either option...

An 8 tons payload, as 80 to 90 kg per men and a 30 kg chute/equipement ?? (not sure here, specialists ??), would give 66 troopers. We would also have to count unit-equipement, mortars, landmines, supplies, etc.

A deployment would have to be launch with multiple airships, to divide the load (mens, equipment, etc).

Paratrooping may not be the only way dawn. Glidding along a rope from the airship like the marines do from helicopters is also possible. So is the grape take off. One rope (or more, airships are longer than choppers), one latch/men and you would be taking the whole unit off in one lift, without landing.
Now that diesel engines are availables we can pull up the ropes without manual labor.

You could even land mules or horses if their hearts are strong enough. (druggs for transport ?)

Bombing is not the only fighting possible, sharpshooter, machineguns, canons, smokebombs, etc.

Postwar civilian use may be possible as fire fighter ?

Ideas ?

Xuan-Wu wrote:Paratrooping may not be the only way dawn. Glidding along a rope from the airship like the marines do from helicopters is also possible. So is the grape take off. One rope (or more, airships are longer than choppers), one latch/men and you would be taking the whole unit off in one lift, without landing.
Now that diesel engines are availables we can pull up the ropes without manual labor.

You could even land mules or horses if their hearts are strong enough. (druggs for transport ?)

Bombing is not the only fighting possible, sharpshooter, machineguns, canons, smokebombs, etc.

Postwar civilian use may be possible as fire fighter ?

Ideas ?

How about a platform for artillery that has the ability to depress below the horizon...

I still think base jumping troopers would be awesome...

That was what I meant by ''canons''. I think a variety of amunitions could be used.

Timed detonation : you could use it as a bomb with altimeter and adjust the effect area.

Landmines.

Impact bombs.


A relif airships could be put in place. Like the humanitarian "drops" where you can disperse emergency rations, clothing, etc.

The airship could also serve as a beacon. It's massive, high in the sky, and could add a signal effect (smoke, light, everything short of the neon flashlight...)

Gliders could also be deployed.

shaeun wrote:

Xuan-Wu wrote:Paratrooping may not be the only way dawn. Glidding along a rope from the airship like the marines do from helicopters is also possible. So is the grape take off. One rope (or more, airships are longer than choppers), one latch/men and you would be taking the whole unit off in one lift, without landing.
Now that diesel engines are availables we can pull up the ropes without manual labor.

You could even land mules or horses if their hearts are strong enough. (druggs for transport ?)

Bombing is not the only fighting possible, sharpshooter, machineguns, canons, smokebombs, etc.

Postwar civilian use may be possible as fire fighter ?

Ideas ?

How about a platform for artillery that has the ability to depress below the horizon...

I still think base jumping troopers would be awesome...

Xuan-Wu wrote:That was what I meant by ''canons''. I think a variety of amunitions could be used.

Timed detonation : you could use it as a bomb with altimeter and adjust the effect area.

Landmines.

Impact bombs.


A relif airships could be put in place. Like the humanitarian "drops" where you can disperse emergency rations, clothing, etc.

The airship could also serve as a beacon. It's massive, high in the sky, and could add a signal effect (smoke, light, everything short of the neon flashlight...)

Gliders could also be deployed.

Ball Bearings dropped from height over fortifications would do a lot of damage even without explosives.

Maybe they could be introduced to 'Rock n Roll' ya know rocks and ball bearings?

Though seriously gliders lifted aloft by balloons would certainly be impressive.