Information I'd love to know

JeffEngel wrote:

Hutch wrote:Debated if this should have gone here or in the 'rambling and musings' thread, but it seems to be a better fit here.

Two posers while re-reading Torch of Freedom:

1. Where did Klaus (and by osmosis, Stacey) Hauptman get their deep hatred of genetic slavery from? It's enough that Klaus built the frigates for the Anti-Slavery Society (which ended up being in the hands of the Audoubon Ballroom and then Torch) at cost (and maybe at a loss), but then for Stacey to will Hauptman Enterprises to Honor if both she and her father were killed? There has to be a story behind it (and not just Honor; while she is best buds with Stacey, her and Klaus do not have a warm relationship...a working one, yes, but I doubt it will ever be a close one.

So where did that hatred come from?

Hauptman's pride - his sense of identity, really - is bound up in being a self-made man coming from a background without privilege. (His initial social status and just being Manticoran don't count, to his mind. Everyone wears some blinders.) If he's both serious and thoughtful about that, he's going to identify with genetic slaves much, much more than most people who can live their lives ignoring it. He can see himself as one of them (or at least believes he can), and every one of them as peers of his who've never had the least opportunity to make what he's made of himself. "There but for the grace of the Cherwell Convention go I." Stacey cannot even pretend to be self-made, but she does have her father's virtues and fewer of his vices, so she may be along for that ride.

Also, slavery's tied in with the mess of Silesia and the arrogance and hypocricy of the Solarian League. He's got to deal with the results of that every day, and what it means to his people - his employees and shareholders. That's something that I'm sure has been making him angry for decades, and Stacey since birth. The common-man identification is also going to give them both short patience with all the hand-wringing about Ballroom tactics from people who've never so much as imagined the life of a slave.
<snip>

Hutch wrote:Debated if this should have gone here or in the 'rambling and musings' thread, but it seems to be a better fit here.

Two posers while re-reading Torch of Freedom:

1. Where did Klaus (and by osmosis, Stacey) Hauptman get their deep hatred of genetic slavery from? It's enough that Klaus built the frigates for the Anti-Slavery Society (which ended up being in the hands of the Audoubon Ballroom and then Torch) at cost (and maybe at a loss), but then for Stacey to will Hauptman Enterprises to Honor if both she and her father were killed? There has to be a story behind it (and not just Honor; while she is best buds with Stacey, her and Klaus do not have a warm relationship...a working one, yes, but I doubt it will ever be a close one.

So where did that hatred come from?



2. Admiral Roczak and Governor Barregos: Can that partnership remain? History has indicated when 2-3 people have tried to take power, it usually ends up badly for all but one of them (see Ancient Rome). Now it could be the Roczak is satisfied with being the top military leader and letter Orval run the politics, but I really wonder if this can last. Sometime in the future, maybe after the Maya Sector is independent and well-off, I can see it breaking down. Which is sad, as both are interesting characters in their own right.


Thoughts?

cthia wrote:

Hutch wrote:Debated if this should have gone here or in the 'rambling and musings' thread, but it seems to be a better fit here.

Two posers while re-reading Torch of Freedom:

1. Where did Klaus (and by osmosis, Stacey) Hauptman get their deep hatred of genetic slavery from? It's enough that Klaus built the frigates for the Anti-Slavery Society (which ended up being in the hands of the Audoubon Ballroom and then Torch) at cost (and maybe at a loss), but then for Stacey to will Hauptman Enterprises to Honor if both she and her father were killed? There has to be a story behind it (and not just Honor; while she is best buds with Stacey, her and Klaus do not have a warm relationship...a working one, yes, but I doubt it will ever be a close one.

So where did that hatred come from?



2. Admiral Roczak and Governor Barregos: Can that partnership remain? History has indicated when 2-3 people have tried to take power, it usually ends up badly for all but one of them (see Ancient Rome). Now it could be the Roczak is satisfied with being the top military leader and letter Orval run the politics, but I really wonder if this can last. Sometime in the future, maybe after the Maya Sector is independent and well-off, I can see it breaking down. Which is sad, as both are interesting characters in their own right.


Thoughts?

Don't worry Hutch. Oftentimes there are quite similar threads but usually one is a better match. That's why I refuse to let this thread die. There's a real need for it. And I thanked Greentea for it long ago and promised to keep using it. And I do. It has a niche market as she intended.

Now about Stacey leaving everything to Honor after her. That perplexes me too because as Hutch stated Klaus and Honor have mended a few fences but they didn't build no barn with a love nest in the loft! If Stacey had been a single remaining heir, Klaus deceased, then yes. But with Klaus alive I can't see him going for that. What am I missing this time?

cthia wrote:

Hutch wrote:Debated if this should have gone here or in the 'rambling and musings' thread, but it seems to be a better fit here.

Two posers while re-reading Torch of Freedom:

1. Where did Klaus (and by osmosis, Stacey) Hauptman get their deep hatred of genetic slavery from? It's enough that Klaus built the frigates for the Anti-Slavery Society (which ended up being in the hands of the Audoubon Ballroom and then Torch) at cost (and maybe at a loss), but then for Stacey to will Hauptman Enterprises to Honor if both she and her father were killed? There has to be a story behind it (and not just Honor; while she is best buds with Stacey, her and Klaus do not have a warm relationship...a working one, yes, but I doubt it will ever be a close one.

So where did that hatred come from?



2. Admiral Roczak and Governor Barregos: Can that partnership remain? History has indicated when 2-3 people have tried to take power, it usually ends up badly for all but one of them (see Ancient Rome). Now it could be the Roczak is satisfied with being the top military leader and letter Orval run the politics, but I really wonder if this can last. Sometime in the future, maybe after the Maya Sector is independent and well-off, I can see it breaking down. Which is sad, as both are interesting characters in their own right.


Thoughts?

Don't worry Hutch. Oftentimes there are quite similar threads but usually one is a better match. That's why I refuse to let this thread die. There's a real need for it. And I thanked Greentea for it long ago and promised to keep using it. And I do. It has a niche market as she intended.

Now about Stacey leaving everything to Honor after her. That perplexes me too because as Hutch stated Klaus and Honor have mended a few fences but they didn't build no barn with a love nest in the loft! If Stacey had been a single remaining heir, Klaus deceased, then yes. But with Klaus alive I can't see him going for that. What am I missing this time?

SWM wrote:You misread that, Cthia. Honor only inherits if both Klaus and Stacey die.

SWM wrote:You misread that, Cthia. Honor only inherits if both Klaus and Stacey die.

cthia wrote:No, I didn't misread it, you misunderstood my thought. If Klaus is alive, why would he want his life's work to go to Honor under any condition? Does he personally have absolutely no one else to bequeath it to other than someone he once despised? He doesn't despise her anymore, no. But it ain't muskrat love either. He could leave it to the Crown.

Can you reimagine that scene in the lift aboard Fearless?
"Relax Klaus, you're going to be leaving me everything you have one day."

"Yea, right."

I wonder if he even knows about it.

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:No, I didn't misread it, you misunderstood my thought. If Klaus is alive, why would he want his life's work to go to Honor under any condition? Does he personally have absolutely no one else to bequeath it to other than someone he once despised? He doesn't despise her anymore, no. But it ain't muskrat love either. He could leave it to the Crown.

Can you reimagine that scene in the lift aboard Fearless?
"Relax Klaus, you're going to be leaving me everything you have one day."

"Yea, right."

I wonder if he even knows about it.

HE doesn't have any say in who Stacey puts in her will.

Besides, Klaus has warmed up a lot more to Honor than you think. You still haven't finished reading all the books, remember. They're not best friends, no. But he knows Honor is a better heir than giving it back to the Crown.

cthia wrote:

SWM wrote:HE doesn't have any say in who Stacey puts in her will.

Besides, Klaus has warmed up a lot more to Honor than you think. You still haven't finished reading all the books, remember. They're not best friends, no. But he knows Honor is a better heir than giving it back to the Crown.

No, but he can circumvent her Will by adopting his own version of an "if we both simultaneously die" clause. Then his wishes would legally take precedent. Can't believe he doesn't have such a clause already. I do.

But@Johnathan, he would certainly like Honor in charge of his fortune in case he and Stacey were both assassinated. Sort of a built-in revenge bequeathal. Cause Tester only knows that Honor would spend every Hauptman dime to find the perps. I like it.

David Weber wrote:"But Hauptman and Harrington hate each other's guts," Benjamin protested.

"Not so much anymore," Albrecht disagreed. "Oh, everything we've seen suggests that he and Harrington don't really like each other all that much, but they've got an awful lot of interests in common. Worse, he knows from direct, painful personal experience that she can't be bought, bluffed, or intimidated worth a damn. And, worse still, the daughter he dotes on is one of Harrington's close personal friends. Given that he won't be around anymore for Harrington to irritate, and given the fact that he knows she's already using Skydome's clout to back the ASL almost as strongly as he is, he's perfectly happy wht the thought of letting her beat on Manpower with his money, too, when he's gone."

SWM wrote:

David Weber wrote:"But Hauptman and Harrington hate each other's guts," Benjamin protested.

"Not so much anymore," Albrecht disagreed. "Oh, everything we've seen suggests that he and Harrington don't really like each other all that much, but they've got an awful lot of interests in common. Worse, he knows from direct, painful personal experience that she can't be bought, bluffed, or intimidated worth a damn. And, worse still, the daughter he dotes on is one of Harrington's close personal friends. Given that he won't be around anymore for Harrington to irritate, and given the fact that he knows she's already using Skydome's clout to back the ASL almost as strongly as he is, he's perfectly happy wht the thought of letting her beat on Manpower with his money, too, when he's gone."