Path to Darius (Spoilers)

Weird Harold wrote:

SYED wrote: There are two systems that offer the best chances of getting the information torch or mesa.

Mannerheim, or more specifically high ranking Mannerheim naval officers, are the most likely source of information on the Felix Junction and the two "hidden" termini. (Darius and the Twins.)

The second most likely source of information is capture of a MAN ship's computers -- streak drive DB or Spider Drive ship.

The most likely route is the one RFC picks.

Seriously, though, I expect either Zack McBryde or Herlander Simoes will mention the SGC-whatever catalog number of the Twins at an opportune time, and then go "was this important?" Having that, a very stealthy probe will find the mine-field, fortifications, ect. that Mannerheim has put there on the Torch wormhole, and possibly find a ship transiting the other wormhole. Then they'll go "Mannerheim? Oh, really...."

saber964 wrote:Not all of Houdini potential evacuees got out or erased. IIRC Jack McBryde mother and sister survived. Also we have information that Darius is on the far side of the SL from Mesa , remember the slave station the RTN was hitting it was IIRC roughly 200LY from Erewon.

They were never on the Houdini list. Remember that the evacuees were warned not to let it slip to friends and family who weren't on the evacuation schedule.

The interesting thing here is that there are a million or so people on Mesa who are members of the "Mesan Alignment," but are not members of the Onion, and have no idea that the Onion exists.

Including one member of the Mesan Board.

Theemile wrote:

saber964 wrote:Not all of Houdini potential evacuees got out or erased. IIRC Jack McBryde mother and sister survived. Also we have information that Darius is on the far side of the SL from Mesa , remember the slave station the RTN was hitting it was IIRC roughly 200LY from Erewon.

WE have that - the RMN/GA does not. No one at the station knows anything about Houdini, and the ships passing throughare going to bounce around several more times and trans-ship their charges to confuse anyone trying to rebuild what happened.

We don't know that Darius is on the far side of the SL from Mesa. We only know that a number of very suspicious people were going through that station. For all we know they're playing pinball with them to further randomize any traces.

Theemile wrote:All the Survivors of the Onion on Mesa don't have critical information on the Onion - at best they know it exists and some of their work was for the alignment. Anyone with more knowledge was removed or.... removed. Remember that self-destruct device in Lajos's head? How many others have that installed and will just go off when their carrier signal disappears for 12 hours?

"Mesan Alignment" does not equal "Onion." Everyone who was in the inner Onion is either off-planet or dead. Everyone left is an idealist who thinks the "Mesan Alignment" that they're a member of is an organization that's been engaged in genetic uplift of the Mesan population.

SWM wrote:Most of us believe that the connection mentioned from Felix to the Haven Quadrant is the one through the Twins to Torch. That's why Torch was so important to the Alignment--it is their backdoor into the Haven Quadrant. The other two termini apparently go nowhere interesting at the moment.

Actually it is explicitly stated that Torch (Torch-Twins bridge) is their backdoor into the Haven Quadrant.

JohnRoth wrote:Seriously, though, I expect either Zack McBryde or Herlander Simoes will mention the SGC-whatever catalog number of the Twins at an opportune time, and then go "was this important?"

Just a nit, this assumes a couple things:
a) that Jack somehow came back from the dead (remember, he suicided to help cover Herlander's escape with the Wonder Pair Viktor and Anton)
b) that Herlander was told, despite the onion and that he was only working on portion of the Streak Drive (and that the Detweilers were somewhat relieved he was never informed fully about the Onion. Still mad, but Herlander didn't know enough to ruin everything, like Houdini)
c) that the MAlign didn't decide at any point to have their own star maps using a code... so naming a system SGC-XXX in their databanks doesn't necessarily mean it's the same system the rest of the universe thinks it is. [Remember, an onion layered conspiracy just might have their own databanks encoded to help throw off any bothersome pests that might hack in]

I think the strongest "path" is likely to be the fact that when the RMN (or whomever -- but I'm betting it's 10th Fleet) captured Mesan space, they're not finding streak drive ships or "spider drive" ships. So Mesa has to have a research "Bolthole" as well -- and it's not going to be somewhere the RMN can get to it easily.

Specifically the streaks, I think about it this way: due to Simoes the RMN theorists/spy types can likely calculate their accel, velocity in the uber- hyperspace bands, etc. Coupled with timing back to Monica/New Tuscany, etc. Then you mix in distances to the Madras sector, etc. Ultimately I'm thinking that starts to map out at least possible "high speed paths" or at least astrographic regions where those ships are likely to be operating.

That's where you do a LOT of snoopy picketing with your available destroyers, light ships, RMMC craft operating in the Verge, etc. Then you close the noose slowly.

Thoughts?

Somtaaw wrote:

JohnRoth wrote:Seriously, though, I expect either Zack McBryde or Herlander Simoes will mention the SGC-whatever catalog number of the Twins at an opportune time, and then go "was this important?"

Just a nit, this assumes a couple things:
a) that Jack somehow came back from the dead (remember, he suicided to help cover Herlander's escape with the Wonder Pair Viktor and Anton)

I said Zack, not Jack. At the end of CoG, Zachariah is en route to somewhere.

Somtaaw wrote:b) that Herlander was told, despite the onion and that he was only working on portion of the Streak Drive (and that the Detweilers were somewhat relieved he was never informed fully about the Onion. Still mad, but Herlander didn't know enough to ruin everything, like Houdini)

Herlander is a high level hyperphysicist. That he wouldn't know about The Twins is absurd. Whether he knows the catalog number or where the wormholes lead in actionable terms is another question (that is, he may not know that "Torch" is one end, and "Felix" is another). I'm assuming that he knows a fair amount about the astrophysics of Torch, but does not know its name, that it's got a settled planet or why it's important to a lot of people. Need to know and all that stuff.

Somtaaw wrote:c) that the MAlign didn't decide at any point to have their own star maps using a code... so naming a system SGC-XXX in their databanks doesn't necessarily mean it's the same system the rest of the universe thinks it is. [Remember, an onion layered conspiracy just might have their own databanks encoded to help throw off any bothersome pests that might hack in]

Good point, but I seriously doubt that RFC would play that kind of mind game. He put the catalog number there for a reason; whether he uses it later or leaves it lie unused is something only he knows.

SharkHunter wrote:I think the strongest "path" is likely to be the fact that when the RMN (or whomever -- but I'm betting it's 10th Fleet) captured Mesan space, they're not finding streak drive ships or "spider drive" ships. So Mesa has to have a research "Bolthole" as well -- and it's not going to be somewhere the RMN can get to it easily.

Specifically the streaks, I think about it this way: due to Simoes the RMN theorists/spy types can likely calculate their accel, velocity in the uber- hyperspace bands, etc. Coupled with timing back to Monica/New Tuscany, etc. Then you mix in distances to the Madras sector, etc. Ultimately I'm thinking that starts to map out at least possible "high speed paths" or at least astrographic regions where those ships are likely to be operating.

That's where you do a LOT of snoopy picketing with your available destroyers, light ships, RMMC craft operating in the Verge, etc. Then you close the noose slowly.

Thoughts?

That's one way of doing it. Another way would be to correlate ship arrivals and departures at hyper bridge terminals using their emission signatures. Correlating arrival and departure times between, say, Visigoth and Beowulf might turn up some interesting things, eh?

Do we know where parmley station is, zack might head there soon? Perfect for ambush and the details can easily passed on.

SharkHunter wrote:I think the strongest "path" is likely to be the fact that when the RMN (or whomever -- but I'm betting it's 10th Fleet) captured Mesan space, they're not finding streak drive ships or "spider drive" ships. So Mesa has to have a research "Bolthole" as well -- and it's not going to be somewhere the RMN can get to it easily.

Specifically the streaks, I think about it this way: due to Simoes the RMN theorists/spy types can likely calculate their accel, velocity in the uber- hyperspace bands, etc. Coupled with timing back to Monica/New Tuscany, etc. Then you mix in distances to the Madras sector, etc. Ultimately I'm thinking that starts to map out at least possible "high speed paths" or at least astrographic regions where those ships are likely to be operating.

That's where you do a LOT of snoopy picketing with your available destroyers, light ships, RMMC craft operating in the Verge, etc. Then you close the noose slowly.

Thoughts?

The tricky bit with your picketing is that you have to guess not just the route, but the exact system the streak drive boats will make a stop in. It would be hard enough to find a ship in hyper using a band you can access; but no sensor can see through a band's wall. So streak ships in the Kappa bands cannot be detected from any band Manticore can currently access. Then you can't tail a spider courier for the same reason. Minutes after leaving the system they'd crack the Iota wall where you can't follow.

So your only hope (until you can recreate the streak drive for yourself) is to guess a system they'll visit; picket it heavily enough to detect and intercept them; then hope to recover something from the crew or computers that helps you locate the MAlihns bolt hole. (And that's assuming the ship doesn't just blow its fusion reactor to avoid capture.
I can't think of a better approach at the moment; but that doesn't mean I think it has any real likelihood of working.