Mesa occupation

the slaves and slave descendants can get the option to leave to torch. I just had this great idea. On hades, honor punishe the bad guys by forcing them to be tried under their own laws. On Mesa they have a bunch of laws, done specific for slaves, but the under class never got a fair hearing. Now manticore can use their own legal systems to eliminate those that are the biggest impediments. A legal purge would help their reputation, and the slaves would love the idea of their own laws being used to punished those that held them down.

I don't agree, because doing that validates Mesa's constitution and confirms the practice of slavery as legal.

Mesa is, or was, regarded as an outlaw star nation, subject to enforcement by Cherwell Convention at any time. Having links with the Solarian bureaucracy protected them this long. Every corporate and most government officials can be executed. I don't expect that to happen, as it crosses the line into an outright atrocity.

It will still be bloody but if a provisional government is organised quickly, with the abolition of slavery and seccying, unlimited emigration and elections with the franchise opened to every human on Mesa, things may settle down somewhat.

Unless the Alignment continues to fake Ballroom attacks...

munroburton wrote:I don't agree, because doing that validates Mesa's constitution and confirms the practice of slavery as legal.

Mesa is, or was, regarded as an outlaw star nation, subject to enforcement by Cherwell Convention at any time. Having links with the Solarian bureaucracy protected them this long. Every corporate and most government officials can be executed. I don't expect that to happen, as it crosses the line into an outright atrocity.

It will still be bloody but if a provisional government is organised quickly, with the abolition of slavery and seccying, unlimited emigration and elections with the franchise opened to every human on Mesa, things may settle down somewhat.

Unless the Alignment continues to fake Ballroom attacks...

Agreed. Slavery is entrenched in the Mesan Constitution as an official institution, and abolition ideology is outlawed.

I do think that Adm Gold Peak's going to have her hands full trying to prevent payback atrocities against the citizen class, but let's be realistic here, 11th Fleet cannot possibly cover the entire planet. I think one way of preventing atrocities from happening on a too widespread basis will be to concentrate the citizen class in 'safety zones', which will have the added benefit of knowing where to look for members of the system government, bureaucracy and security forces as well as private citizens once a new Seccie-run system government becomes organized enough to conduct a Median version of the Nuremberg trials.

I think Michelle will probably insist on pretty stringent standards for charges, trials and appropriate penalties for the convicted, as well as maintaining an oversight role to ensure that everyone plays by the rules.

I think that we'll also see, at the very least, a mass exodus not by former slaves and Seccies, but by former members of the citizen class. Whereto? Who knows?

There are a number of things going on here. One is that Admiral Henke is not stupid enough to announce a final resolution of the genetic slave mess until Jeremy X arrives. What I expect she will do is eliminate the second class citizen (seccy) class immediately and start enforcing the provisions in the Mesan Constitution for fair treatment of genetic slaves, with a clear statement that further resolution will wait until Jeremy X and the delegation from Beowulf arrives.

She's also going to destroy any ships in orbit that violate the equipment clause of the Cherwell convention and totally sever any connection between Manpower on Mesa and Manpower tentacles off of Mesa.

I'm expecting a task force from Manticore to arrive at Visigoth within a couple of weeks to secure the other end of the wormhole (and, not incidentally, cut off the Gupta sector).

NIT: She is not going to destroy ships in orbit who violate the equipment clause.

To start with they pose no threat.

Second of all they are worth $$$ and the equipment in question can be removed or destroyed and therefore the ships can be used for profitable enterprise.

And way down on the list... Third of all some of those ships can be used as trojan horses against the rest of the slavers in the HV.

Occupy? She's got about 1000 marines. There are probably more than a thousand towns with a population over 100,000. And the citizen class is not a bunch of hipsters in San Francisco. They are not blind, not stupid and not unarmed.

Relax wrote:Second of all they are worth $$$ and the equipment in question can be removed or destroyed and therefore the ships can be used for profitable enterprise.

Removing the "equipment" would require a complete gutting and rebuild -- probably cheaper to just build new ships. Most of what is covered by the Equipment Clause is the internal structure of the slave quarters and the over-sized hatches for ejecting "unwanted cargo."

Weird Harold wrote:

Relax wrote:Second of all they are worth $$$ and the equipment in question can be removed or destroyed and therefore the ships can be used for profitable enterprise.

Removing the "equipment" would require a complete gutting and rebuild -- probably cheaper to just build new ships. Most of what is covered by the Equipment Clause is the internal structure of the slave quarters and the over-sized hatches for ejecting "unwanted cargo."

Uh, gaseouss injection system... all you have to do is remove the gas... Leave the system.

Quarters are easy to remove and just the thing for unskilled labor to be set to do as something to productive and needed at the same time.

Ta da, you know have a cargo ship.

YOu will note the freighter in SoSag, carried both freight and human cargo at different times. Obviously the design had already been specialized to reconfigure internally easily.

hanuman wrote:

munroburton wrote:I don't agree, because doing that validates Mesa's constitution and confirms the practice of slavery as legal.

Mesa is, or was, regarded as an outlaw star nation, subject to enforcement by Cherwell Convention at any time. Having links with the Solarian bureaucracy protected them this long. Every corporate and most government officials can be executed. I don't expect that to happen, as it crosses the line into an outright atrocity.

It will still be bloody but if a provisional government is organised quickly, with the abolition of slavery and seccying, unlimited emigration and elections with the franchise opened to every human on Mesa, things may settle down somewhat.

Unless the Alignment continues to fake Ballroom attacks...

Agreed. Slavery is entrenched in the Mesan Constitution as an official institution, and abolition ideology is outlawed.

I do think that Adm Gold Peak's going to have her hands full trying to prevent payback atrocities against the citizen class, but let's be realistic here, 11th Fleet cannot possibly cover the entire planet. I think one way of preventing atrocities from happening on a too widespread basis will be to concentrate the citizen class in 'safety zones', which will have the added benefit of knowing where to look for members of the system government, bureaucracy and security forces as well as private citizens once a new Seccie-run system government becomes organized enough to conduct a Median version of the Nuremberg trials.

I think Michelle will probably insist on pretty stringent standards for charges, trials and appropriate penalties for the convicted, as well as maintaining an oversight role to ensure that everyone plays by the rules.

I think that we'll also see, at the very least, a mass exodus not by former slaves and Seccies, but by former members of the citizen class. Whereto? Who knows?

That sounds like a good reason to rile up the slaves even more so; agent provocateurs? It would be tactically easier to call for Jeremy X and his group than it would be trying to supply the necessary resources for the purposes of maintaining order. Of course it would be a scandal if discovered.

Relax wrote:Uh, gaseouss injection system... all you have to do is remove the gas... Leave the system.

It is the "system" whether it's loaded with gas or expended, that is covered by the "equipment clause. The oversized "disposal" hatches are another point that would have to be dealt with.