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MA? abreviations?

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Re: MA? abreviations?
Post by SWM   » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:32 pm

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Thanks, Hutch and Harold. I'm going to have to rethink this.
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Re: MA? abreviations?
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:19 pm

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SWM wrote:Thanks, Hutch and Harold. I'm going to have to rethink this.


Also in A Rising Thunder, there is a Detweiler POV where they view the GA as "Haven joining the Manticore Alliance" -- I didn't quote that bit because it was from a biased and less-informed POV, but it is one way of looking at the GA.
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Re: MA? abreviations?
Post by kzt   » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:40 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:It is apparent that the Manticoran Alliance still exists as the Star Empire didn't really have any other allies. The amassadors were consulted -- whether that consitutes "brought in" or not is a pointless distinction.

You'll notice, that for what is supposedly a military Alliance, there was no allied military flag officers involved from all their allies other than the GSN and AIN.

At the point where war broke out the Manticore Alliance was as much of an Alliance as SEATO was in 1976.
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Re: MA? abreviations?
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:01 pm

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kzt wrote:You'll notice, that for what is supposedly a military Alliance, there was no allied military flag officers involved from all their allies other than the GSN and AIN.


You perhaps missed that this was a draft treaty turned out on a very short time-span. There wasn't enough time to assemble anyone not already in the system except for Grayson, "only three and a half days by dispatch boat."

There's plenty of time (and negotiations off-screen) for organizing the actual military details.
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Re: MA? abreviations?
Post by kzt   » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:17 pm

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Joint HQs are how you run actual, functioning Alliances. Functioning military alliances don't have coordination for major joint operations conducted by retired officers in secret from their government. Like when the GSN reinforced 3rd (or was it 8th) via the WHJ.
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Re: MA? abreviations?
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:43 pm

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kzt wrote:Joint HQs are how you run actual, functioning Alliances. Functioning military alliances don't have coordination for major joint operations conducted by retired officers in secret from their government. Like when the GSN reinforced 3rd (or was it 8th) via the WHJ.


Gee, I wonder why High Ridge didn't draft you to point out all the stupid decisions his government made. :roll:
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Re: MA? abreviations?
Post by kzt   » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:08 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:Gee, I wonder why High Ridge didn't draft you to point out all the stupid decisions his government made. :roll:

I don't know why, I can do it for perfectly reasonable rates. But the point is there was no actual Manticore Alliance at that point. It still existed as a legal construct, just like SEATO was still formally a military alliance on June 29 1977, but it had ceased to function as an actual military alliance.

If the RMN wanted your input on something they would tell you want they wanted to hear, and if you didn't like that, well, the door is right there.
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Re: MA? abreviations?
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:42 am

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kzt wrote:If the RMN wanted your input on something they would tell you want they wanted to hear, and if you didn't like that, well, the door is right there.


That was true of the Janacek Admiralty, but it is NOT true of the White Haven Admiralty.

IIRC, there is a discussion about encouraging the smaller Manticore Alliance partners to revert to neutrality in the war against the League but those who choose not to be neutral will still be welcome in the GA.
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Re: MA? abreviations?
Post by kzt   » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:51 am

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Weird Harold wrote:That was true of the Janacek Admiralty, but it is NOT true of the White Haven Admiralty.

And who was running the RMN when the 2nd war broke out? Not the guy secretly conspiring with the GSN to prevent Haven from completely kicking Manticores ass.
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Re: MA? abreviations?
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:13 am

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kzt wrote:And who was running the RMN when the 2nd war broke out? Not the guy secretly conspiring with the GSN to prevent Haven from completely kicking Manticores ass.


What, exactly, does that have to do with who is running the admiralty when Haven and Manticore turn out the draft alliance? Or the status of the Manticoran Alliance at that time?
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