BC(P)

JohnS, we have been through this before! And who is one of the key people on this forum who has stumped for BC'P being superior to the obsolete BCL and that the so called "vulnerabilities" are more superior intellectual stupidity in engineering design than due to the pod core?

Heck, I even got RFC to basically admit that multiple pod exit points will be in the next design. Once this happens, the "vulnerabilities" by-and-large, vanish other than requiring a larger ship as the launch mechanism for each individual missile, a pod, requires more equipment tonnage.

Yea, tis I.

I was essentially pointing out we do not know the $$$ end of things to make the defining distinction between the next BC class once everyone "catches" up or nearly so.

Certain design elements, like putting KH in the main hull vs the pod bay, had compromised the survivability of the design. Yeah that cuts into ammo capacity, but ammo that never gets fired because the ship blows up is pretty pointless.

kzt wrote:Certain design elements, like putting KH in the main hull vs the pod bay, had compromised the survivability of the design. Yeah that cuts into ammo capacity, but ammo that never gets fired because the ship blows up is pretty pointless.

Unless they double the number of CM's and PDLC's...

BCL is effectively same length of SD'P yet has a tiny number of CM's in comparison. Designed when BuShips knew the alpha strike was all important which should have indicated that CM ammo depth is less important than NUMBER of CM's launched per minute.

Relax wrote:

kzt wrote:Certain design elements, like putting KH in the main hull vs the pod bay, had compromised the survivability of the design. Yeah that cuts into ammo capacity, but ammo that never gets fired because the ship blows up is pretty pointless.

Unless they double the number of CM's and PDLC's...

BCL is effectively same length of SD'P yet has a tiny number of CM's in comparison. Designed when BuShips knew the alpha strike was all important which should have indicated that CM ammo depth is less important than NUMBER of CM's launched per minute.

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Just to add another few thoughts into the mix --

(1) A Pod BC loaded with Mk 16G pods will likely have the same missile load-out as an SDP with Mk23's

(2) If you don't need the Very Long Range of the Mk23, the 40M Km range of the Mk16G exceeds all SLN ammo, even the "unofficial" Technodyne missiles

(3) I can foresee a Mk16H that is FTL / KH capable -- whether KHII or KH-Lite remains to be seen

-- Stewart (return after short absence)

stewart wrote:Just to add another few thoughts into the mix --

(1) A Pod BC loaded with Mk 16G pods will likely have the same missile load-out as an SDP with Mk23's

(2) If you don't need the Very Long Range of the Mk23, the 40M Km range of the Mk16G exceeds all SLN ammo, even the "unofficial" Technodyne missiles

(3) I can foresee a Mk16H that is FTL / KH capable -- whether KHII or KH-Lite remains to be seen

-- Stewart (return after short absence)

Just a nitpick. The powered range of the Mk16 is "only" about 30 million km; not 40. (And the Mk23 is about 65 - that 3nd drive more the doubles the continuous powered range; despite adding only a third more runtime)


But of course any DDM/MDM can add a ballistic segment; so their practical range is limited only by firecontrol. OTOH taking DDMs against MDMs you have the risk that the MDMs can cover most of their range envelope faster than the DDMs can; so you risk damaged or destruction from their opening salvo before yours gets into terminal attack range

stewart wrote:

Relax wrote:
Unless they double the number of CM's and PDLC's...

BCL is effectively same length of SD'P yet has a tiny number of CM's in comparison. Designed when BuShips knew the alpha strike was all important which should have indicated that CM ammo depth is less important than NUMBER of CM's launched per minute.

--------------

Just to add another few thoughts into the mix --

(1) A Pod BC loaded with Mk 16G pods will likely have the same missile load-out as an SDP with Mk23's

(2) If you don't need the Very Long Range of the Mk23, the 40M Km range of the Mk16G exceeds all SLN ammo, even the "unofficial" Technodyne missiles

(3) I can foresee a Mk16H that is FTL / KH capable -- whether KHII or KH-Lite remains to be seen

-- Stewart (return after short absence)

1) 1000+ pods verses 300? Uh...
2) Discussion of current SLN tech is frankly useless as the Havenites "caught up" to the Manties using SL tech transfers...
3) I do not see RFC going down that path other than possibly special large tubes on a BC. If you need FTL, send the SDP as your intel screwed up and your forces are getting out of Dodge ASAP.

Relax wrote:2) Discussion of current SLN tech is frankly useless as the Havenites "caught up" to the Manties using SL tech transfers...

I still think David blew it by stopping the seizure of the uncompleted Lynx forts by the MA's puppets. That would have really made things in the current books much more interesting.

kzt wrote:

Relax wrote:2) Discussion of current SLN tech is frankly useless as the Havenites "caught up" to the Manties using SL tech transfers...

I still think David blew it by stopping the seizure of the uncompleted Lynx forts by the MA's puppets. That would have really made things in the current books much more interesting.

Don't forget your up against the SLN operators (i.e. highly trained but never had to use the knowledge, don't keep up with exercises, nor carryout basic maintenance) not the manufacturers/highly motivate individuals (e.g. Haven)

Any technology has potential but if you haven't need to explore it then you aren't going to maximise it, look at how the ex-state sec officer/crew, a product of the pre-coup educations system, the Mesans got to work for them for the attack on Torch managed to boast the SLN software for missile defence.

Fundamentally, the potential in the hardware/software is there the SLN have just never needed to use it

Garth 2 wrote:Don't forget your up against the SLN operators (i.e. highly trained but never had to use the knowledge, don't keep up with exercises, nor carryout basic maintenance) not the manufacturers/highly motivate individuals (e.g. Haven)

Any technology has potential but if you haven't need to explore it then you aren't going to maximise it, look at how the ex-state sec officer/crew, a product of the pre-coup educations system, the Mesans got to work for them for the attack on Torch managed to boast the SLN software for missile defence.

Fundamentally, the potential in the hardware/software is there the SLN have just never needed to use it

There's that, but there's also that the deployed hardware/software is built to specs based on nearly no practical experience whatever in the current tech environment, or that of the last 50 years. I only had to add "nearly" there because Frontier Fleet at least sometimes fights. Even the exercises BF and FF put together never pose a challenge.

The theoretical general Solarian tech base is fine. It's great. Manticore has only exceeded it recently, at great cost, with great motivation, and only in the places where they've got a keen military/espionage need for it. Unfortunately for the SLN, it's never had to compete with another navy so it's never learned how, and its hardware and software is, well, flabby - it has no tone, it is not matched to any particular need other than (1) looking good, (2) getting them funding, and (3) not causing much in the way of dangerous peacetime accidents.

JeffEngel wrote:Unfortunately for the SLN, it's never had to compete with another navy so it's never learned how, and its hardware and software is, well, flabby ...

So, what you're saying is the 800 Kilo Gorilla everyone has been scared of is more a 400 lb Mall Cop?