How To Convert entire populace

What would happen if the OBS was destroyed spectacularly ?

Ill admit up front that I don't remembe if the general population knows anything about the OBS.
But I can imagine it being used as a reverse rainbow.
A visable sign promising gods wrath if he is angered too much.

If that is the case and the OBS was destroyed. With much of safehold seeing the explosion and the disappearance of the "star" noted soon after.
Could much of the population be convinced, that it was as a sign that god had removed the limits, and god promises not to become angry ?

Peppero wrote:What would happen if the OBS was destroyed spectacularly ?

Ill admit up front that I don't remembe if the general population knows anything about the OBS.
But I can imagine it being used as a reverse rainbow.
A visable sign promising gods wrath if he is angered too much.

If that is the case and the OBS was destroyed. With much of safehold seeing the explosion and the disappearance of the "star" noted soon after.
Could much of the population be convinced, that it was as a sign that god had removed the limits, and god promises not to become angry ?

The population does not know about the OBS, nor is it visible. The Writ threatens that the Rakurai can strike when necessary, but there is no association in the people's minds between the Rakurai and some invisible object above Safehold.

hanuman wrote:Part of that will depend on changing the way people think about the world around them, so that they no longer just accept the Writ's 'divine explanations' at face value, but rather think about the how and why and what - the kind of thing already happening in Charis. Once people realize that the Writ's explanations conflict with their own observations, they'll be far more willing to accept the truth. Many won't, of course. Even today, despite all evidence, many religious folk refuse to accept certain scientific phenomena instead of scriptural explanations. It's human nature to fear the unfamiliar.

And non-religious refuse to recognize lack of support for their theories. A book, "Darwin's Black Box," by Michael Behe discusses the existence of many biological irreducable complexities in biology. A simple example Behe gives of irreducable complexity is the snap type mouse trap: A platform, a hammer to do the work, a spring to drive it, a latch to hold it, a trigger to release it, and several hinge equivalents. If any one of these is missing or out of tolerance in position, size, shape, or strength, the whole thing won't work. I liked the diagram and discussion of the clotting mechanism: controls is my primary understanding and I recognized biochemical equivalents of: sensory, time delay, negative feedback, positive feedback, and output. Not simple at all We could also mention the fine tuning of the universe, consciousness and free agency, and transendant moral truth. Even someone who insists that all truth is relative says that "all truth is relative" is absolute.

SWM wrote:
Don,

That doesn't make sense. If the Return is supposed to be a way to make the children behave, then people need to know about the Return. If people don't know about the Return, then they can't scare their children straight by telling them about it.

No one except the Wylsynn family knew about the Return.

You are presuming that making the children behave is a matter of deterence.

I am presuming that its more a matter of punishing the errant children as a part of putting God's plan back on track. That they didn't expect the return is tough cookies. They had the Writ, after all, and they could have chosen to behave themselves.

Don

Peppero wrote:What would happen if the OBS was destroyed spectacularly ?

Ill admit up front that I don't remembe if the general population knows anything about the OBS.
But I can imagine it being used as a reverse rainbow.
A visable sign promising gods wrath if he is angered too much.

If that is the case and the OBS was destroyed. With much of safehold seeing the explosion and the disappearance of the "star" noted soon after.
Could much of the population be convinced, that it was as a sign that god had removed the limits, and god promises not to become angry ?

I like this and as a long time advocate for destruction of the OBS if neutralization cannot be performed... if broadsides showed up everywhere the event was viable, say within a day, the discussion could be shaped to say almost anything you want it to.

I know that Merlin has been reluctant to play the miracle card but I think that Narmahan and OWL might think it is easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission and if they put the right spin on it, could undermine the jihad

How about Merlin ordering Owl to upgrading itself to the next level (or 2) of AI and then making a number of duplicates to do nothing but work on new technology to defeat the Rakuri?

By this time, one would think that enough high end elements or lanthanides (sp) would exist in Houseman's tailings piles for Owl to do this.

Dan Jones

Well, the destruction of the OBS will be a highly visible sign in the heavens, and the explanation will matter.

Assuming of course that it's not turned into gray goo with a wafted-in replicant disorder. Or taken over.

n7axw wrote:
A more valid challenge to my premise would be the Brits Irish problem in N. Ireland. That can be portayed as a struggle to liberate Ireland of English domination.

But it does have to be stated that both situations have a strong religious vector. And if we think about it, there are probably more exceptions to my statement.

Don

That one could also be expressed as the minority's desire to overthrow the majority's preference. Besides, if the Irish high king hadn't invited the Norman king of England in, there wouldn't have been this problem in the first place, but who'd a known back then!

What makes me boggle is that the Protestant Northern Irish that the terrorists hate are reputed to mostly be descended from of Irish people who moved to southwest Scotland but whose later generations returned to Ulster centuries ago. I sometimes wonder how much of the argument is religious and how much is simply 'we want the power'.
Cheers
John

Keith_w wrote:

n7axw wrote:
A more valid challenge to my premise would be the Brits Irish problem in N. Ireland. That can be portayed as a struggle to liberate Ireland of English domination.

But it does have to be stated that both situations have a strong religious vector. And if we think about it, there are probably more exceptions to my statement.

Don

That one could also be expressed as the minority's desire to overthrow the majority's preference. Besides, if the Irish high king hadn't invited the Norman king of England in, there wouldn't have been this problem in the first place, but who'd a known back then!

dan92677 wrote:How about Merlin ordering Owl to upgrading itself to the next level (or 2) of AI and then making a number of duplicates to do nothing but work on new technology to defeat the Rakuri?

By this time, one would think that enough high end elements or lanthanides (sp) would exist in Houseman's tailings piles for Owl to do this.

Dan Jones

Dan,

I like this as a first next step... after the OBS is dealt with, the humans have to get back on track with the original mission and, as has been pointed out elsewhere, they will need to significantly up grade the tech.
Remember in the first chapter of OAR the Admiral speaking with Nimue speculated that humans had nearly outpaced the tech and that the Gbaba did not seem capable to innovate that even their new ships were on par with ships thought to be thousands of years old??

However, they have to build up a fleet that has not only the sophistication but the punch to do the job when the encounter is made and... with the population of only one planet (which has been involved in a global war)it might be worth while to think of planetary or system defenses controlled by the children of OWL and Narmahan