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How To Convert entire populace

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How To Convert entire populace
Post by Philip Stanley   » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:27 am

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This question is not HFQ-specific; it relates to what will happen once the inquisition-dominated Temple is conquered, one or more volumes from now.

At that point, the war will end, and the Church of God Awaiting will be in place as a kinder, gentler, more humanity-enhancing entity. Virtually all of humanity (except the inner circle) will be firm believers.

Now the question is: How will the protagonists proceed to reveal the truth about the Gbaba, the Church's origins and beliefs, Langhorne and his clique, etc? Think about it. Anyone trying to do this will only ignite enormous religious conflict. The entire populace are still firm believers in the church, and will resent any attempt to attack their faith (it's human nature). If the inner circle can convince a significant number of people of these truths, the result will be a holy war between that group and the rest. If they can only convince a few, then the vast majority will persecute that few as heretics.

It seems to me that the only way to reveal the truth will be to convince the entire Safehold population simultaneously, and I don't see how this can be accomplished. How will our revered Maker of Things to Happen accomplish this? It can't be anything as simple as announcing the truth with posted broadsides; that wouldn't convince more than a tiny percentage of the population. It would have to be something universal (and not some sort of deus ex machina such as a reprogramming ray that is broadcast all over the planet simultaneously!!)

I wonder how he will accomplish this.

Philip Stanley
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by Thrandir   » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:32 am

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Give them the internet and the equivalent of the Google or similar search engine :lol:

Whatever way he does it there is going to be people who don't believe or want to believe and there is going to be a lot of heart ache and anger.

I'm actually looking forward as to how RFC accomplishes this wee problem :)
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by n7axw   » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:50 am

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We know from comments that have been made by David that there will be more religious conflict...along with one or more nasty wars to come yet.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by Aegis99   » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:20 pm

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Thrandir wrote:Give them the internet and the equivalent of the Google or similar search engine


I think you're underestimating the power of people to use google to confirm what they already believe :D
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by hanuman   » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:51 pm

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Part of that will depend on changing the way people think about the world around them, so that they no longer just accept the Writ's 'divine explanations' at face value, but rather think about the how and why and what - the kind of thing already happening in Charis. Once people realize that the Writ's explanations conflict with their own observations, they'll be far more willing to accept the truth. Many won't, of course. Even today, despite all evidence, many religious folk refuse to accept certain scientific phenomena instead of scriptural explanations. It's human nature to fear the unfamiliar.
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by kaid   » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:18 pm

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I don't see the entire population ever fully converting. You are going to have sizable portions that will simply refuse seeing it all as the work of the devil. Short of something that appears as divine intervention.


I think it would not be unlikely to see a grayson/masada type split eventually. A part that while still very religious at least is pragmatic enough to use what technology they are required to use and another part of people who will utterly refuse to believe and will likely be intractably aggressive. Think the middle east issues with people who know with 100% "certainty" what god told them to do.

It is very likely you wind up having to simply leave them on safehold as humanity goes back to the stars and colonizes other worlds.
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by Tararoys   » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:35 pm

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This is why Staiyner and the Bretheren have been emphasizing tolerance for centuries. Staiyner is also pounding a personal relationship with God as one of the central tenets of the Church of Charis. Between those two concepts, the conclusion once a few more heresies start showing up is "that dude's personal relationship with God is really weird, but I'll tolerate it" instead of "Kill the heretic!"

If Charis can make the doctrine of tolerance stick in it's own lands, it has a chance of weathering the storm more or less intact, with most of it's populace grumpily arguing points of doctrine instead of hacking each other to bits with swords. If they can move carefully enough, then, by increments, the revelation that the archangels were people will be just one more step in a long journey,. Sure, it'll be a weird belief,, but by then so many other weird beliefs will be crawling around that that one won't trigger a war.

But let's assume the worst: there is a whole round of vicious religious wars lasting hundreds of years, like what happened during the Christian reformation. It is possible that, like the Catholics and Protestants, safehold will settle into a truce of mutual exhaustion, where the majority of people will get so sick of the bloodshed on both sides and tell their respective extremists to go to hell.
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by n7axw   » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:46 pm

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Luther nailed the 95 theses to the door of the Castle Church in Wittenburg in 1517. The Peace of Westphlia ending the 30 years war in 1648 marked the end of the last war in Europe when shots were fired in anger over religion.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:40 pm

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n7axw wrote:...marked the end of the last war in Europe when shots were fired in anger over religion....


I guess ethnic cleansing in the Balkans and during WWII don't count as "shots fired in anger" then?
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: How To Convert entire populace
Post by n7axw   » Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:28 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
n7axw wrote:...marked the end of the last war in Europe when shots were fired in anger over religion....


I guess ethnic cleansing in the Balkans and during WWII don't count as "shots fired in anger" then?


Nice come back and valid point, although I suspect that the Balkans issue is more ethnic than religious.

A more valid challenge to my premise would be the Brits Irish problem in N. Ireland. That can be portayed as a struggle to liberate Ireland of English domination.

But it does have to be stated that both situations have a strong religious vector. And if we think about it, there are probably more exceptions to my statement.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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