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Official Safehold Speculation Thread

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Re: Official Safehold Speculation Thread
Post by n7axw   » Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:01 pm

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Expert snuggler wrote:Shan-wei and company wanted to preserve a base of knowledge. The best way to do that is to make lots of copies. They were smart enough to know that.

Where did they put them, in what form, and how long were they to be hidden from Safeholders? Has that time come up yet?


The two that we know about are the re-educated Adams and Eves who apparently were educated in the truth about Safehold's origins, but we are not told that they had technical knowledge. The second is the sleeping PICA and the computer memory module in Nimue's cave.

I suspect that spreading copies of memory modules around, while having the advantage of redundancy would have put them at greater risk of detection which would alert the command crew and later the inquisition to them...and their keepers. The apparent strategy chosen, that of limiting the actual tech to Nimue's cave, was probably the wise one, even though it didn't have redundancy.

Then too, remember that the story is not completely played out. Of the re-educated Adams and Eves, we have only encountered Jeremiah Knowles and his group out of a total of 200+ who were re-educated. That could well mean that there are other journals and inner circles who will eventually see the light of day.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Official Safehold Speculation Thread
Post by Expert snuggler   » Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:02 am

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What can the good guys do with photography once someone figures it out?

Photography can be done without electricity.

I may already have speculated about a Matthew Brady type being there for the liberation of the concentration camps. In addition, what about hidden cameras to provide proof for the allegations Aivah's network is going to make?
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Re: Official Safehold Speculation Thread
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:20 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
n7axw wrote:So...Id be interested to hear your reasoning here...


If it were possible (practical), Merlin wouldn't be relying on contact lenses and hearing aids for the inner circle.



So... OK, we saw that OWL is/was literal and that there were questions that were not asked therefore answers that were not given at the time (such as not knowing there was a full back up copy of Nimue/Merlin in the files and the way s/he had to drag answers out of OWL when he reactivated the sensors at the time.
Also, I think that a search of the files led to the VR suit that Nahrmahn/OWL built.
I predict that this duo will come up with at least one more application to assist Nimue/Merlin in the taks at hand.

Also, the hardware and methodology used to transfer Nahrmahn into the computer files was quick and dirty. With a little thought and engineering they could come up with something... even if it looks like a tinfoil hat, that would perform the functions of the NEAT's that Nimue/Merlin grew up with.


I also think that any materials that were in inventory in the cave, ought to be replenish-able so the prospect of a few more PICA's should be possible.

Last thought... it should be easy for Nimue/Merlin to knock out the orbital platform with EMP using nukes detonated in proximity after drifting in from further out system.

Finding the right answer is a function of asking the right question. Albert Einstein

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Re: Official Safehold Speculation Thread
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:26 pm

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Expert snuggler wrote:Shan-wei and company wanted to preserve a base of knowledge. The best way to do that is to make lots of copies. They were smart enough to know that.

Where did they put them, in what form, and how long were they to be hidden from Safeholders? Has that time come up yet?



I agree with this thread and think that it is not unlikely that at least one duplicate (or actual) copy of the library that she had in Alexandra was stashed elsewhere for safe keeping. After all, if she expected the reaction that she got, she could easily have empty disks in Alexandra when the rocks fell.

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Re: Official Safehold Speculation Thread
Post by SWM   » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:07 pm

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C. O. Thompson wrote:
Expert snuggler wrote:Shan-wei and company wanted to preserve a base of knowledge. The best way to do that is to make lots of copies. They were smart enough to know that.

Where did they put them, in what form, and how long were they to be hidden from Safeholders? Has that time come up yet?



I agree with this thread and think that it is not unlikely that at least one duplicate (or actual) copy of the library that she had in Alexandra was stashed elsewhere for safe keeping. After all, if she expected the reaction that she got, she could easily have empty disks in Alexandra when the rocks fell.

Just my 2 cents worth

But the text and infodumps make it quite clear that Shan-Wei did not expect the reaction that she got. And while she did try to put some contingency plans into place, she did not manage to complete all of them. Most of the 200 re-educated Adams and Eves are believed to have perished in Alexandria before they could get away.
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Re: Official Safehold Speculation Thread
Post by n7axw   » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:39 pm

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SWM wrote:
Most of the 200 re-educated Adams and Eves are believed to have perished in Alexandria before they could get away.


An interesting assertion. What is the basis for it?

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Official Safehold Speculation Thread
Post by Expert snuggler   » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:55 pm

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Even if you're not expecting one of your colleagues to throw rocks from a hidden OBS, it's normal to have offsite backups.

Betcha the OBS is EMP hardened and OWL has already calculated whether an EMP could take it out.
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Re: Official Safehold Speculation Thread
Post by SWM   » Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:23 pm

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n7axw wrote:
SWM wrote:
Most of the 200 re-educated Adams and Eves are believed to have perished in Alexandria before they could get away.


An interesting assertion. What is the basis for it?

Don

Because the book of St. Zhernau indicates that a lot more of the re-educated were supposed to join him in Charis, but they never made it. Their cover stories were set up for Charis. It is likely that they did not get out of Alexandria before the Rakurai struck.
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Re: Official Safehold Speculation Thread
Post by Hooked   » Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:32 pm

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How long do seijin live? Merlin has been with Caleb for several years. Seijin are supposed to have special abilities but they are human, so there must be some limit to their lifespan, even if it is several hundred years like the original Adams. How long can Merlin guard Caleb before he has to go away and be replaced by another, presumably Merlin in another form.
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Re: Official Safehold Speculation Thread
Post by n7axw   » Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:52 pm

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SWM wrote:
Because the book of St. Zhernau indicates that a lot more of the re-educated were supposed to join him in Charis, but they never made it. Their cover stories were set up for Charis. It is likely that they did not get out of Alexandria before the Rakurai struck.
[/quote]

Just for the heck of it, I went back into BSRA to that section where Merlin is introduced to the brethren and is shown the journal. This happens right after that scene as Merlin is examining the journal and confering with Owl,

"All of the anonalies fall into the same category as already known, Lieutenant Commander. They consist of colonists who appear to have been assigned to muliple enclaves. In all cases, the enclave listed in Dr. Pei's roster is Alexandria. In Administrator Lanhorne's roster, they are assigned to several different enclaves.. I have detected a total of two hundred and twelve such anomalies"

So we know that the re-educated Adams and Eves were placed in multiple enclaves.

There is another piece of textev on this inserted into Merlin's conversation with Archbishop Maikel a few pages later. It reads as follows,

"But we do not know where Dr. Pei may have placed others like us. We were never told for obvious reasons. We do know she intended others here with us in Tellesberg, but there was never time, and now she never will."

I would conclude from this that the 212 mentioned by Owl were indeed spread around to several enclaves. It really wouldn't have made any sense for Dr Pei to concentrate all of her eggs in the Tellesberg basket.

My second conclusion made on the basis of the second quote is that Dr. Pei had an ongoing program of re-education that did get caught in the OBS strike when Dr. Pei ran out time; those others she had planned to send to Tellesberg--and possibly other places--, and now she never will...

Finally, I would suggest that it wouldn't be unreasonable to speculate that there could be other journals surrounded by inner circles protecting the ancient witness of other re-educated colonists who could pop out of the woodwork at some point in the story. I find myself hoping so so that those stories might be told.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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