What is the path to electricity?

Two naive notes that someone has probably noted before, that would avoid electricity:

Radio - radio waves are a form of electromagnetic radiation, like visible light.

Hydraulic computers - they're slow, but much faster than the abacus. They use water and mechanical "gates", and are used today in rugged locations where electronics just won't do the trick.

wkernochan wrote:Two naive notes that someone has probably noted before, that would avoid electricity:

Radio - radio waves are a form of electromagnetic radiation, like visible light.

Hydraulic computers - they're slow, but much faster than the abacus. They use water and mechanical "gates", and are used today in rugged locations where electronics just won't do the trick.

The problem with radio is that you cannot transmit or receive radio without using electricity. Radio signals are generated by moving electrons, and detected when the signals cause electrons to move. Moving electrons are electricity, and any moving electrons causes electromagnetic waves (usually radio).

Radio signals are in fact the most likely method that the OBS would use to detect electricity (assuming the OBS is actually programmed to watch for electricity). So radio is not a way around electricity.

Electromagnetic radiation is permitted, though, if generated by means that are not visibly electrical. Safehold uses artificial light.

A chemically pumped maser might be technically possible and would be religiously confusing.

A crystal set receiver is an electrical device but not at all obviously if you don't have education or instrumentation.

Are they doing cathodic rust protection on the ironclads?

Expert snuggler wrote:Electromagnetic radiation is permitted, though, if generated by means that are not visibly electrical. Safehold uses artificial light.

A chemically pumped maser might be technically possible and would be religiously confusing.

A crystal set receiver is an electrical device but not at all obviously if you don't have education or instrumentation.

Are they doing cathodic rust protection on the ironclads?

I doubt it. I think it was mentioned in OAR that Merlin couldn't introduce electroplating to help copperplate ships because electricity itself was Proscribed.

Thank you. I had dim, dim memories of the issue coming up but wasn't sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluidics covers hydraulic computers.

Could they skip straight to nanotech without going through electricity first? Doesn't seem likely, certainly not without some boostrapping tools from the Cave of Wonders.

evilauthor wrote:

Expert snuggler wrote:Are they doing cathodic rust protection on the ironclads?

I doubt it. I think it was mentioned in OAR that Merlin couldn't introduce electroplating to help copperplate ships because electricity itself was Proscribed.

Cathodic Rust protection doesn't require generating electricity, it just requires setting up the conditions for a natural current through the surrounding seawater. I'm pretty sure it can be explained away without resorting to "electrical theory."

Such passive uses of electrical theory can probably be approved by Father Paityr as simple observed phenomenon without scientific explanation.

Physically, it does generate electricity. It's putting dissimilar metals in an electrolyte, so it's exactly the same as a battery. Current flows, and it's artificially produced.

So, mousetrap the Temple. Let them capture ship design documents that involve submerging pieces of zinc. Once those are in use and everyone's committed, go public with how it works. There are many ways that might break, and most of them serve Merlin's strategy.

Expert snuggler wrote:Physically, it does generate electricity. It's putting dissimilar metals in an electrolyte, so it's exactly the same as a battery. Current flows, and it's artificially produced.

So, mousetrap the Temple. Let them capture ship design documents that involve submerging pieces of zinc. Once those are in use and everyone's committed, go public with how it works. There are many ways that might break, and most of them serve Merlin's strategy.

Finally a suggestion that seems RFC feasible - anybody else think RFC painted himself into corners and that some of the forum topics are free think tanks to get him out of them (if they are or aren't god does it feel nice to apart of it all)

Expert snuggler wrote:Thank you. I had dim, dim memories of the issue coming up but wasn't sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluidics covers hydraulic computers.

Could they skip straight to nanotech without going through electricity first? Doesn't seem likely, certainly not without some boostrapping tools from the Cave of Wonders.

At some point after the Great Reveal the knowledge in the Cave of Wonders is going to be shared so that humanity can return to the stars and kick whatever passes for the Gbaba's butts. That won't happen until the planet achieves a great degree of political unity, since the last thing you'd want would be factions with TF weapons fighting each other. Safehold has already had one War of the Fallen, it doesn't need another.

I'm pretty sure that the computers, propulsion systems, and spaceships of the TF all required electricity, so the OBS will have to be dealt with before Safehold can launch anything but heavily stealthed TF craft into orbit, or the recon skimmers and the lorry which the OBS is clearly programmed to ignore.

However, OWL never said he couldn't devise a way to take out the OBS, he merely said that nothing in his current inventory could do it. So it's likely that he and Merlin can figure out how to construct a weapon that could take out the Rakurai. Add Nahrmahn to the mix and it's pretty much an iron-clad guarantee!

So have OWL build a fabber, have the lorry take it into orbit, and send it off to an asteroid. There it can use whatever TF tech is required to build additional fabbers that can create something powerful enough to take out the OBS. Then do it!

We've been led to believe that the OBS can be shut down using the controls that everyone assumes are under the Temple, but this isn't "Heirs of Empire," so I think RFC may throw a twist at us when our heroes reach the basement. The ICA will seize the temple, Merlin and company will explore the basement, and there won't be anything associated with the OBS. Their presence may wake up something that can control the OBS though, so a few of the Temple's computers may get blown to smithereens, which hopefully would cut the connection to wherever RFC has decided to place the OBS command center - which may be with the OBS in orbit. So there could be a VP of an archangel in space ready to wake up and fire the OBS whenever it's needed. Oops!

There are serious risks in attacking the OBS before capturing the Temple, (should the attack on the OBS fail) and possibly worse risks if an attack on the Temple heightens the OBS' response level so that it begins to look for manufacturing centers to destroy. Goodbye Delthak!

The road to electricity is going to require three steps.

The first step is to get innovation established as a firm habit for a substantial portion of Safehold's population. Once innovation takes hold, the grip of the proscriptions on people weakens as innovation improves their lives. This will take time but is a process that can't be shortcutted.

The second step is to discredit the Writ. This is already going on as the Writ's most fervent supporters behave so badly. But the great reveal and the mellenial return of the archangels will play an undisclosed role.

The third step is to neutralize the OBS. It is plain from the textev that concern about the OBS is as important to the Merlin and the inner circle as the politics of innovation.

These three steps don't necessarily happen in the order I've listed above, but they all have to be accomplished before electricity can be introduced.

Don