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Stopping the Sharonan advance

"Hell's Gate" and "Hell Hath No Fury", by David, Linda Evans, and Joelle Presby, take the clash of science and magic to a whole new dimension...join us in a friendly discussion of this engrossing series!
Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by SYED   » Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:35 pm

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Do we know how far the sliders have been developed? There has been all this talk of logistics and dragons, and train track construction, but nothing about hte sliders. So the sharonan would keep the logistical advantage. It is a very short distance, in comparison, between portals in hell gate, less than 300 miles.

Do we know which world the arcanum forces have forts or strongholds?
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by Astelon   » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:45 am

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This information is from snippet 4:

Still worse, the nearest real stockpile had been in Ucala, at the end of the slider net from New Arcana, 24,300 miles behind Arcana’s first encounter with the Sharonians, and they’d advanced over four thousand miles since then.


The rest of the snippet goes on to discuss the problems in arcanan logistics, and the suspected capacity of sharonian trains. Everything points to a large sharonian advantage, even though the trains move slower and can't travel a straight line to their, destination like dragons can.

Arcana appears to follow the practice of placing forts at portals and other strategic locations. As for their forces we don't know where the nearest arcanan forces are at, save for the fact the mul Gurthak has sent forwards everything (officially) at his disposal. This indicates that it will be some time (months when you consider that Arcana just got word of the initial contact) before any significant reinforcements can reach the front. With their slow communications it will take significant time just to send out the necessary orders to gather and direct the reinforcements.
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by SYED   » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:17 am

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Which universe is mul Gurthak stationed in again, just so i can be sure?

I wonder if aditional cavalry elements will be sent to the sharonan front, to to help with troop moventment while they are waiting for the tracks to be fully built. While inferior to the magic enhanced beasts, it is still faster than feet.
The track does ensure their logistical concerns are mmionr currently.

Here is the thing, the shaaronans dont need to defeat teh arcanum forces in combat, they simply need to damage their logistical capability enough that they are forced to retreak. How many battle and transport dragons are left? The same for those griffons and dire horses? They have a choice kep most of the animals deployed, and force more of their logisitics dedicated to feeding them, or concentrate them on that world with food, and continually redploy them. If concentrated, a raid with field artillery could do alot of damage.
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:58 pm

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vos & mul Gurthak is stationed in the Universe
called "Erthos" or "Erthus."
He commands Fort Talon,
located at the Gate coming from Arcana.

See the third post "Military Places" in thread:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1446

This makes two Arcanan forts, that we've been told of,
that are located on the Gate's side away from Arcana.
We are told that Sharona's policy is
to place forts on the Sharona side of Gates,
unless terrain dictates otherwise.

HTM

[quote="SYED"]Which universe is mul Gurthak stationed in again, just so i can be sure?

[/quote="SYED"]
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by tonyz   » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:00 pm

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Howard T. Map-addict wrote:We are told that Sharona's policy is
to place forts on the Sharona side of Gates,
unless terrain dictates otherwise.


I always wondered about that -- all gates have two sides going in and two sides going out. While Fort Salby, thanks to one side of the gate being a miles-high cliff, most definitely has an "in" and an "out" side, it seems that in most cases it would be better advised to put the fort near one of the ends where the gate-circle intersects the ground, rather than putting it (as I think the Sharonan fort on Hell's Gate has it) at the mid-point on one side of the portal. That makes it way too far to get to the middle of the other side of the portal compared to having the gate at the end-point looking down both "sides" of the portal.

Am I missing something, or has someone forgotten about the double-sided aspect of the portals?
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by SYED   » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:30 pm

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The double sided effect of portals kinda makes each portal actually 2 portals, so even if you build a fort in the middle of one, people could pass unheeded via the other side.
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by n7axw   » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:27 am

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I think that if you are out to deny the other side passage way into the universe you are shielding, you would have to build a heavily defended line across the portal, the heavier and deeper that line the better.

My own choice would to build those defenses with the portal to the front rather than to the rear although an argument could be made the other way.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by Astelon   » Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:17 am

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My first post discussed how Arcana could build and defend a portal fort, but I did not discuss it from Sharona's side. The problem for Arcana is that If they place a fort or bunker facing a portal then the sharonian force will just pound it into rubble with artillery fire. Hence the need to place the forts in such a way that artillery will not be ass effective against them.

Sharona could conceivably defend a much larger portal, but without aircraft they need to be able to interdict most of it with artillery fire and barrage balloons. Since Arcana lacks any artillery that can fire through a portal powerful forts with trenches and bunkers between them will work well. The artillery and machine guns could be used to sweep the land between them and the portal and out the other side.
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by n7axw   » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:50 pm

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Astelon wrote:My first post discussed how Arcana could build and defend a portal fort, but I did not discuss it from Sharona's side. The problem for Arcana is that If they place a fort or bunker facing a portal then the sharonian force will just pound it into rubble with artillery fire. Hence the need to place the forts in such a way that artillery will not be ass effective against them.

Sharona could conceivably defend a much larger portal, but without aircraft they need to be able to interdict most of it with artillery fire and barrage balloons. Since Arcana lacks any artillery that can fire through a portal powerful forts with trenches and bunkers between them will work well. The artillery and machine guns could be used to sweep the land between them and the portal and out the other side.


I was thinking something like the Marginot Line stretched across the full width of the portal. A problem I don't see how to solve at current stage of development is how to keep dragons from flying across in the dark at night.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Stopping the Sharonan advance
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:27 pm

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tonyz's points numbered for reference.
Answered in reverse order.

2 No, DW definitely remembers what he created.
He has specified that a Gate must be defended from
both sides, IF an attacker is expected.
Then any attacker needs to attack both sides at once.

At Hell's Gate, Chan Tesh attacked both sides (two of
his big mortars sent to the other side are in text),
and later defended both sides. The Arcanan force then
attacked both sides (textev shows eight Red Dragons
dividing four-and-four to attack each "aspect').
In other cases, Gates had a fort at only one aspect,
*because no attack was expected or imagined!*

At Salby, the fort was too far from the Gate to defend
a single aspect. The garrison concentrated to defend
the fort, instead of trying to hold the Gate.
Then the attackers made their First Attack with Battle
Dragons flying through the Direct Aspect, but they
sent the Transport Dragons with the Zydors through
the other Aspect, to avoid being seen.

1 Back in 2007, several of us suggested that a Portal
Fort might better be put beyond the edge, so that it
could observe both sides, and fire its heavy weapons
along whichever side was attacked.
(I called mine "Fort Naughty.") :D
Someone else (whose name is in my records somewhere)
suggested a fort that went around the edge, through
the Portal, around the edge in the other universe,
through the other aspect of the Portal, and back to
the first edge, thus forming a double circle.
I called that "Fort Mobius."
Perhaps we might see those forts later in Book 3.

But neither A nor S had needed such forts before First
Contact, so neither had yet invented them.

HTM

tonyz wrote:
I always wondered about that -- all gates have two sides going in and two sides going out. While Fort Salby, thanks to one side of the gate being a miles-high cliff, most definitely has an "in" and an "out" side,
1 it seems that in most cases it would be better advised to put the fort near one of the ends where the gate-circle intersects the ground, rather than putting it (as I think the Sharonan fort on Hell's Gate has it) at the mid-point on one side of the portal. That makes it way too far to get to the middle of the other side of the portal compared to having the gate at the end-point looking down both "sides" of the portal.

2 Am I missing something, or has someone forgotten about the double-sided aspect of the portals?
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