What if Schueler and Langhorn were mind-altered by Bedard?

n7axw wrote:The angel we meet at the beginning of OAR is not an archangel. Both Schueler and Chihiro were archangels.

Don

Were Chihiro and Schueler original archangels. I guess that's a point I've never been clear on.

OJsDad wrote:

n7axw wrote:The angel we meet at the beginning of OAR is not an archangel. Both Schueler and Chihiro were archangels.

Don

Were Chihiro and Schueler original archangels. I guess that's a point I've never been clear on.

They were not figures prominent enough to be known to Nimue Alban before her PICA recording, nor did they have books named for them in the original Writ. So, they probably weren't in the very top tier in the command crew, but where the angel/archangel split goes isn't something well-defined in any case.

So, don't worry, it's not a point that lends itself to clarity.

If you look in the appendexes of both MTAT and LAMA, you will find a table of archangels listed, I presume with by the author or at minimum with his blessing. Both Schueler and Chihiro are on the list.

Don

JeffEngel wrote:

OJsDad wrote:
quote="n7axw" The angel we meet at the beginning of OAR is not an archangel. Both Schueler and Chihiro were archangels.

Don /quote

Were Chihiro and Schueler original archangels. I guess that's a point I've never been clear on.

They were not figures prominent enough to be known to Nimue Alban before her PICA recording, nor did they have books named for them in the original Writ. So, they probably weren't in the very top tier in the command crew, but where the angel/archangel split goes isn't something well-defined in any case.

So, don't worry, it's not a point that lends itself to clarity.

Since the recording that became Merlin (and later Nimue) was made before Nimue Alban was assigned to the ARK team, it is not surprising that they were not known to her. I haven't re-read OAR recently, so I don't remember if any of the civilian command team were known to her prior to her joining the mission. I know that she, the Pei's and Dr. Proctor discussed the issue of Langhorne after his selection, but that would not indicate that he was known to her prior to his consideration for the leadership of the mission, nor does it indicate that he was not, or that any of the other civilian command team were or were not known to her before joining the mission. It may well be that everything she knows about Langhorne and all the other archangels et etc comes from Commodore Pei's briefing of her in the cave and from the mission records that were transferred to the cave prior to the Commodore's suicide bombing. OTOH, there may be plenty of textev that indicates otherwise that I have forgotten. Wouldn't be a surprise to me.

Dilandu wrote:Ah yes. Here it is:

SPOILER deleted

Personally, I interpreter this as an indication, that Langhorne ordered the attack, but not on that scale. Some sort of warning shot, probably. But someone tampered with Rakurai controls, and the system gave full barrage instead.

Sorry, but according to RFC, it was Langhorne's baby and it did exactly what he wanted it to do - kill off the Alexandria Enclave, and do it quickly.

Here's the link: http://www.davidweber.net/faqs/index/series:6 Click on the question "Why was Kau-yung surprised by the orbital bombardment system?" which is currently the sixth question from the top.

"the original OBS was a relatively simple (and cheap) system built for a single purpose --- to take out the entire Alexandria Enclave in a single strike --- and it was intended to do so so quickly that neither Kau-Yung and his loyalists among the ex-Navy personnel nor any other "archangels" who might have disagreed with the plan would be able to prevent it from happening. In other words, the idea was to burn out the source of "dangerous contamination" in a single stroke and present them with a fait accompli, after which they would have little choice but to accept Langhorne's plans --- and actions --- as a "done deal." To that end, the OBS was also built under high conditions of secrecy in one of the modules aboard the flagship commanded and staffed by people personally loyal to Langhorne. Its existence was concealed not just from Kau-Yung, but from everyone outside Langhorne's immediate close circle of utterly trusted subordinates, and it wasn't deployed from inside the module in which it had been built until literally no more than a very few hours from when it was used."

I am not sure of the text reference but I seem to recall it mentioning somewhere that Chihiro wasn't an archangel ORIGINALLY! I think it may have been in OAR when Merlin is reading through the copy of the Writ.
Anyway, I suspect that he very well may have been the angle that was visiting the village at the time of Commodore Pei's strike and stepped into the void left behind. Who knows but we may find out later.
Schuler, however, was mentioned by the Commodore as one of Langhorne's close subordinates and probably one of the original Archangles. I think that Chihiro, as Langhorne's scribe was probably an senior staffer or aide.

PlaysWithBees wrote:I am not sure of the text reference but I seem to recall it mentioning somewhere that Chihiro wasn't an archangel ORIGINALLY! I think it may have been in OAR when Merlin is reading through the copy of the Writ.
Anyway, I suspect that he very well may have been the angle that was visiting the village at the time of Commodore Pei's strike and stepped into the void left behind. Who knows but we may find out later.
Schuler, however, was mentioned by the Commodore as one of Langhorne's close subordinates and probably one of the original Archangles. I think that Chihiro, as Langhorne's scribe was probably an senior staffer or aide.

Both are listed as Archangels. Look at appendix in back of MTAT or LAMA for a table of Archangels. I just read a paragraph in LAMA referring to Chihiro as an Archangel. There is no textev to the contrary.

I think that the valid question, and one for which we have no answer, is where Schueler and Chihiro were when Comnodore Pei delivered his little surprise. It is easy enough to imagine them being off on an errand of some sort, but we are left in the dark on the specifics.

I'm not aware of any textev of any of the other Archangels surviving the good Commodore's vest pocket nuke. But be that as it may, Schueler and Chihiro are the ones who step forward to pick up the pieces afterward.

Don

n7axw wrote:

PlaysWithBees wrote:I am not sure of the text reference but I seem to recall it mentioning somewhere that Chihiro wasn't an archangel ORIGINALLY! I think it may have been in OAR when Merlin is reading through the copy of the Writ.
Anyway, I suspect that he very well may have been the angle that was visiting the village at the time of Commodore Pei's strike and stepped into the void left behind. Who knows but we may find out later.
Schuler, however, was mentioned by the Commodore as one of Langhorne's close subordinates and probably one of the original Archangles. I think that Chihiro, as Langhorne's scribe was probably an senior staffer or aide.

Both are listed as Archangels. Look at appendix in back of MTAT or LAMA for a table of Archangels. I just read a paragraph in LAMA referring to Chihiro as an Archangel. There is no textev to the contrary.

I think that the valid question, and one for which we have no answer, is where Schueler and Chihiro were when Comnodore Pei delivered his little surprise. It is easy enough to imagine them being off on an errand of some sort, but we are left in the dark on the specifics.

I'm not aware of any textev of any of the other Archangels surviving the good Commodore's vest pocket nuke. But be that as it may, Schueler and Chihiro are the ones who step forward to pick up the pieces afterward.

Don

Yes they are listed as archangels now. However that does not mean they were always such. I will have to do some research to see if I can find the text I'm vaguely remembering. Yes they are listed as archangels now, but we're they from the beginning...

I will have to do some research to find the reference I think I remember, which is something I unfortunately do not have the time for right now. Indeed I may be remembering wrong. It's been known to happen.

I'm just saying that I seem to recall reading at some point that Chihiro got promoted to arch Angel status after the destruction of most of the command staff.

In the end though you are correct. The main question is where were they when the big KABOOM happened.

Looking at OAR, page 161, Merlin states that the Book of Chihiro was added after the death of Langhorne. He also stated earlier that Chihiro was a staffer of Langhornes and had created the Holy Writ.

I would think that if Chihiro was an Archangel before Langhornes death, he would of had a book in the Holy Writ before.

Also, it's stated that Langhorne, Bedard, Pasquale, Sondheim and their most trusted followers were killed Pei's nuke attack. It seems that perhaps several other archangels may not have been killed.