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Origins of Harchong

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Origins of Harchong
Post by JeffEngel   » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:41 am

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I was looking around for details from RFC about obscure places and found an interesting one about a prominent one:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3071&p=67076&hilit=Barren#p67076
In Harchong, the Church and the local aristocracy have been joined at the hip to an even greater extent than elsewhere on the mainland. Harchong — or what eventually became the Harchong Empire, at least — was the focus of the early population and expansion of Safehold for several reasons, despite the fact (if you look at the map) that its internal communications are relatively poor. Tiegelkamp, Boisseau, Stene, Kyznetzov, and Shwei were primarily grassland and particularly fertile. They required much less in the way of terraforming and land clearance, which made them the heart of Haven's early population growth. The emergence of a strong dynasty in Tiegelkamp which succeeded in uniting all of those separate enclaves into provinces of the same name into Safehold's first true empire during the War of the Fallen — and which put its new, imperial strength behind Langhorne's successors — explains a lot about both Harchong's size and power and its "special relationship" with the Church and with the forces of doctrinal reliability, in particular.

That's a mix of North and South Harchong provinces about the Gulf of Dohlar. It upsets the forum theory that Harchong originated in Horth Harchong and later assimilated/conquered South Harchong. It turns out that it was an amalgamation of enclaves around the northern and southern coasts of the western end of the Gulf of Dohlar. Think of it like the Roman Empire based around the Mediterranean as its central communications net, but without including the Mediterranean/Gulf of Dohlar's eastern shores. From there, the Empire expanded inland on both continents. I take suspect that expansion was into places without well-developed enclaves, and that the eastern Gulf had targets that, between themselves and the Church, weren't especially open to Harchongese assimilation.

I haven't yet found any other reference to Boisseau, so that's a new question.
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Re: Origins of Harchong
Post by dwileye13   » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:01 pm

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JeffEngel wrote:I was looking around for details from RFC about obscure places and found an interesting one about a prominent one:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3071&p=67076&hilit=Barren#p67076
In Harchong, the Church and the local aristocracy have been joined at the hip to an even greater extent than elsewhere on the mainland. Harchong — or what eventually became the Harchong Empire, at least — was the focus of the early population and expansion of Safehold for several reasons, despite the fact (if you look at the map) that its internal communications are relatively poor. Tiegelkamp, Boisseau, Stene, Kyznetzov, and Shwei were primarily grassland and particularly fertile. They required much less in the way of terraforming and land clearance, which made them the heart of Haven's early population growth. The emergence of a strong dynasty in Tiegelkamp which succeeded in uniting all of those separate enclaves into provinces of the same name into Safehold's first true empire during the War of the Fallen — and which put its new, imperial strength behind Langhorne's successors — explains a lot about both Harchong's size and power and its "special relationship" with the Church and with the forces of doctrinal reliability, in particular.

That's a mix of North and South Harchong provinces about the Gulf of Dohlar. It upsets the forum theory that Harchong originated in Horth Harchong and later assimilated/conquered South Harchong. It turns out that it was an amalgamation of enclaves around the northern and southern coasts of the western end of the Gulf of Dohlar. Think of it like the Roman Empire based around the Mediterranean as its central communications net, but without including the Mediterranean/Gulf of Dohlar's eastern shores. From there, the Empire expanded inland on both continents. I take suspect that expansion was into places without well-developed enclaves, and that the eastern Gulf had targets that, between themselves and the Church, weren't especially open to Harchongese assimilation.

I haven't yet found any other reference to Boisseau, so that's a new question.


Thank you for this post.

I had not thought on the locale of the Harchong powerbase. If the War against the Fallen ended in North North Harchong (Desolation Mountains) Where would the CoGA equipment be? Could there be a cave in Tiegelkamp similar to Nimue's Cave with weapons of War?

Somehow I expect some other ancient group to come out to reignite the War against the Fallen! Taking the Jihad to another level.

Time to start training a team to use the assault shuttle.
I am not young enough to know everything!
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Re: Origins of Harchong
Post by Thendisnia   » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:22 pm

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dwileye13 wrote:
Thank you for this post.

I had not thought on the locale of the Harchong powerbase. If the War against the Fallen ended in North North Harchong (Desolation Mountains) Where would the CoGA equipment be? Could there be a cave in Tiegelkamp similar to Nimue's Cave with weapons of War?

Somehow I expect some other ancient group to come out to reignite the War against the Fallen! Taking the Jihad to another level.

Time to start training a team to use the assault shuttle.



YES YES YES!!!
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Re: Origins of Harchong
Post by JeffEngel   » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:42 pm

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dwileye13 wrote: I had not thought on the locale of the Harchong powerbase. If the War against the Fallen ended in North North Harchong (Desolation Mountains) Where would the CoGA equipment be? Could there be a cave in Tiegelkamp similar to Nimue's Cave with weapons of War?

Somehow I expect some other ancient group to come out to reignite the War against the Fallen! Taking the Jihad to another level.

Time to start training a team to use the assault shuttle.

How would you account for these hypothetical Temple Loyalists with access to TF weaponry not yet using it to destroy heretic Charis?
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Re: Origins of Harchong
Post by Kakai   » Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:19 pm

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JeffEngel wrote:How would you account for these hypothetical Temple Loyalists with access to TF weaponry not yet using it to destroy heretic Charis?


Extreme version of Saint Zherenau's "waiting time" for Inner Circle introduction? Perhaps they have some rule like "use only in time of most dire need" and what we're thankfully not shown is bunch of Temple Loyalists arguing whether this is the time of most dire need or not.
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When in mortal danger, when beset by doubt,
Run in little circles, wave your arms and shout.

- Ciaphas Cain
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Re: Origins of Harchong
Post by dwileye13   » Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:21 pm

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JeffEngel wrote:
dwileye13 wrote: I had not thought on the locale of the Harchong powerbase. If the War against the Fallen ended in North North Harchong (Desolation Mountains) Where would the CoGA equipment be? Could there be a cave in Tiegelkamp similar to Nimue's Cave with weapons of War?

Somehow I expect some other ancient group to come out to reignite the War against the Fallen! Taking the Jihad to another level.

Time to start training a team to use the assault shuttle.

How would you account for these hypothetical Temple Loyalists with access to TF weaponry not yet using it to destroy heretic Charis?


I didn't say anything about TL in the current environment. We have many classes of power running around. The SoSK are Temple Loyalists in their own way. There are many that love the Church but are confused at the corruption and actions of that body. The force of the lie that is the CoGA has cultural and spiritual control of Safehold. The CoGA is losing political and economic control as well as being threatened by a Reformation movement. Since the WaF we have no textev of a serious threat to the CoGA until now.

A question to be asked is: did anyone on the Churches side of the WaF take precautions that the ShanWei followers might be lurking somewhere?

I am assuming that at the end of WaF they did the same as Merlin's Group
I am not young enough to know everything!
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Re: Origins of Harchong
Post by n7axw   » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:10 pm

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I think that if there was any such thing as a bunch of TL who had access to high tech, it would have been used by now...

Besides, at least the way the story has been told so far, the notion of a high tech TL is a bit of an oxymoron.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Origins of Harchong
Post by dwileye13   » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:29 pm

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n7axw wrote:I think that if there was any such thing as a bunch of TL who had access to high tech, it would have been used by now...

Besides, at least the way the story has been told so far, the notion of a high tech TL is a bit of an oxymoron.

Don


Perhaps it should be couched in terms of the Millennial return. OR The Key and access point in the Temple. I am not saying they have immediate access. Merlin was a timed wake up with lots of tech behind him but not available until the time or need arose.
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Re: Origins of Harchong
Post by evilauthor   » Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:12 am

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dwileye13 wrote:I didn't say anything about TL in the current environment. We have many classes of power running around. The SoSK are Temple Loyalists in their own way. There are many that love the Church but are confused at the corruption and actions of that body. The force of the lie that is the CoGA has cultural and spiritual control of Safehold. The CoGA is losing political and economic control as well as being threatened by a Reformation movement. Since the WaF we have no textev of a serious threat to the CoGA until now.


The way the terms are currently defined, the SoSK are more like the first ever Reformist movement (they believe Chichiro and the post-Langhorne angels have perverted the Church for their own power).

If the SoSK can be considered "Temple Loyalist", then so can every Reformist that lives on Safehold.
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Re: Origins of Harchong
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:13 am

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n7axw wrote:I think that if there was any such thing as a bunch of TL who had access to high tech, it would have been used by now...

Besides, at least the way the story has been told so far, the notion of a high tech TL is a bit of an oxymoron.

Don


Well, we already have at least two covert organistaion, that worked literally for centuries, without being detected. It is quite possible, that there could be more of them...

I think that if there was any such thing as a bunch of TL who had access to high tech, it would have been used by now...


They may have some restrictions. For example, some sort of "holy weapon could be used only to fight demons, not in some mere mortal squabbles". And if there is no clear indication of demonic powers, they may still believe that the situation is not dire enough.

After all, if we imagine some ancient secret order of geniune demon-busters, they may simply be disinterested in Church politics. "Temple declared Holy War? Those idiots always make a lot of noise about stupid things. We have a real work to do - to fight demons, if they would return."

Or, they may even thought, that the Charisian "heresy" is, actuallym a good thing. After all, if you are a member of secret order of professional demon-busters, and you have knowlege far beyound mere mortals - you would, probably, be also dissatisfied with the corruption and sins inside the Temple. So the "geniune demonbusters" may actually support - passivly - the charisian actions, considering them as "the means to restore Church purity".

Besides, at least the way the story has been told so far, the notion of a high tech TL is a bit of an oxymoron.

Don


Well, there was a lot of fractions of coomand crew. Some of them may eventually decide, that they need a high-tech backup, in case of hiding strategy fail, and Gbaba would eventually come.
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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