(SPOILER) HFQ Review

The illusion about Thirsk being able to stop the Inquisition from claiming Manthyr and his people lives on, I see.

He wasn't even in charge. The agreement to do that was made in the palace and the notion of disobeying Mother Church wouldn't have occured to Rahnyld, Thorast or Duke Fern. Thirsk had lost control of his prisoners long before and wasn't even able to get the intendent to allow adequate food and medicare for them.

Let's lay the responsibility for what happened where it truly belongs: on Zhasphar Clyntahn and the inquisition.

Don

Read it, the spoiler doesn't sound like much of a plot point spoiler to me. Minor to middling at best. Still opinions may vary so I won't mention it.

Rant mode on/
I like the comment about "If only the author had written such and so he wouldn't have ticked me off so much." <or words to that effect> Gosh Ms. Reviewer, what made you think that "not ticking you off" was a significant worry in his head. DW is writing the story he wants, not the one you do.
Want a different one? Then sit down at that computer you wrote your critique on and write it. Then we'll tell you why YOU'RE story is boring and mundane and ticks us off.
Rant mode off/

Cheers;
Larry

I would like to say many things :

- about the critic on the technical stuff. Well Weber is known to devellopp the world in his books. (BIG SURPRISE HERE) (Honorverse = science fiction, Safehold = pre-industrial, etc) It's one of his qualities according to me. Wile writing you can eather follow established rules in your universe or aply lose rules that you won't have to bend to follow your script. I'm thinking about Brandon Sanderson rules about writing. In his books (fantaisy) magic have rules that he follow. It's the same with RFC. Our favorite autors also have to explain much more stuff because of the ''technicallity'' of the technology. (Who's got a degree in this field around here ?) There are many great autor doing the same thing. ( not to say : Emile Zola, J.R.R.Tolkien, R.R Martin, Brandon Sanderson). That's called building your universe and giving your readers a wolrd they can imagin. Shall we "edit" their books' ? (woops that's censure, isn't it?)


Highjohn, I don't agree with you on two points:

- your comment about the ''good caracthers deaths''. If there is one thing we can easily see in RFC's books, it's his aversion for ''warporn'' were only the bad guys die. Wars are ugly because both sides will lose estimated (for good or bad reasons) members.

- Second point is Thirsk. Well sorry guy but should a really nasty person (Our hated Forn...... In chief as Merlin called him, Stalin, Hitler or the many others in history) were to threaten my family if I did something they wouldn't like, well, I would keep in line. Even if it would coast all your lives. Does anybody else confess to the same sins? As readers we have a privileged place, we can juge everything that's happening. But we shouldn't forget that we are the ones being safe, READING. Thirsk was raised in a world were church obeidiance was absolute. For him to think other way is torture. We just have to read about his introspections to know that. Selftorture all along. Will he or not, snap ? Only RFC know. (Or pearhaps Sharon, I don't bealive he doesn't test his twists on her first. She obvioulsy suffer greatly for our sakes. We love you Sharon) . Back to Thirsk, would he have tried to intervene, it would have just grown the number of names on the list... (himself + staff + all the staff and personnal family). Preventing his family to live, his subordinates to survive (thanks to his war-efforts/inovations). AND preventing all readers with countless discutions about it. (how many times was it again ?)

phillies wrote:The reviewer lives up to the crankiness promised in her header.

It seems that she is an author in thr TOR "stable" and writes fantasy. Someone reviewed one of her books and 'irked' her - he wound up apologizing for his harshness.

What goes around comes around. If you have trouble with harshness .....

Where did Archbishop Makel of Charis get his treecat?

Thendisnia wrote:Where did Archbishop Makel of Charis get his treecat?

His daughter gave him his cat-lizard. Where did you get the idea he has a tree cat?

Ah, ye good old topic ...

The reviewer's comment on moral fortitude
Now that's one point as might have some validity ... if the whole thing's sole purpose was meant to depict the pure evil of the Bad Guys.
Looking at it from the aspect of the character development of Merlin however ... well that's a whole other matter, I'd say.

That technology knowledge dump thing
I really must admit, I agree with the reviewer on that point. It was implied by Xuan-Wu, that this was required to build the world, comparing directly with several of the other great world builders in literature history.
I deny both the implication and the comparison.

The Sanderson Comparison
Let's take the Sanderson comparison: Yes, Sanderson thoroughly explains how magic works in his worlds and how it affects the life of people. That's good, he sets up the rules and sticks to them, giving the reader a very consistent and plausible experience of magic in a fantasy world. I'd call him a master for that.
Now how does that differentiate from RFC? Well, all Sanderson books I remember, it was the main character learning those rules as s/he went about dealing with a personal crisis. All this setting up the rules, always happens as part of the character development (A good example for those who want to read it up: Elantris. Awesome book).
Whenever RFC breaks out the big explanation stick, it interrupts both story and character development. At least in Safehold - other series are less cursed by this - this has gotten out of all proportion for my tastes.
Some of the explanations really were necessary, even in my opinion, but even when they were, most often the delivery was horrible: Epic monologues.
One after another.

Do I need to know this?
Here a few things I really wondered about when reading the books so far:
- Do I really need to know about Siddarmark's historical development of the pike formation and how it worked ... right after it had become obsolete? (That was close to half a chapter if memory serves).
- Do I really need to know - in all grim detail - just how good cold weather clothing is being made?
- Do I really need to know the full evolution on how to perform sail drill?
- Do I really need to know how far bicycle development has progressed?

The Delivery
As I already mentioned above: My main issue with the info dumps is in the delivery. Some might have been eschewed with entirely, but most needed at least mention to make the world work. After all, the technological development is at the heart of the main storyline. The reader really needs to have the impression that technology is evolving on Safehold.
But Monologues?
Please, that Gunpowder guy whose name I never can remember (lost some fingers, big Admiral on his Powder-Keg ... guess you know whom I mean) ought to have had an irreverent apprentice/aide for some time now - he needs one anyway - just so we could add some personal interest in this.
Howsmyn? Now that edge of technological development would have been prime meat to develop both Paityr (his slip into Charisian mindset on technological improvement, with a big drop of approaching crisis of faith) and Ironhill (I think that was his name anyways, that financial minister dude). Add a bit more on the topic of the un-/morality of Charisian manufacturers in general to give Howsmyn himself some more aspects.
As it is, my personal nickname for Howsmyn is "Bringer of Death, Doom and Monologues".

Package Size
Many of those info dumps could have been vastly reduced in size, while maintaining their impact and plausibility, with the full part in an Appendix (and later more easily compiled into a Safehold Technology Companion).

Personal Conclusions
I am fully aware of my position and many of those who disagree. The Safehold-Books are David's books, which he has the kindness to share. If I want my own book, I'm free to write it myself. Some like them just the way they are and that too is good. Congratulations from my side.

Call it censorship and violating the will of the author, but I know that my ebook version will not contain more than a sentence or two on the design of cold weather clothing - once I'm done editing it (Note: It will however have a technical Appendix).

Same as the reviewer this whole thread was started about however, I'm only sticking around cause I got addicted to the characters, whenever they get a chance to appear.

Moving along ...

Duchairn and the general support of the war from the side of the Church
It has been criticized, that Duchairn has not sabotaged the war effort. So I must ask, "why would he?"
Judging by his own inner monologues, he considers the Church's victory over Charis a base necessity. The Church's unity must be maintained, once that's assured it can be cleaned as it needs.
He may have wavered a bit on that recently - and he sure as hell realizes the insanity and evil of Clyntahn - however so far his position sure as hell never gave me any reason to believe he'd defect. He opposes Clyntahn personally of course - that enmity is firmly set.
Then there's the matter of being alive to do some good, but enough said on that.
The final consideration on Duchairn - and one I haven't read yet so far:
Habit.
Maintaining the Church's fiscal health has become a deeply ingrained habit for Duchairn - he's been doing it for years before the Schism. Simple habit will incline him towards sticking to it in time of crisis.

The common man's support for the war
Most commoners - the ones working in the manufactories of the Church - will probably not be all that well informed. I'd assume that on the Church territories they have a fairly tight control on information and how it is presented. Charis' broadsheets may be trying to attack this, but the Church has been presenting her side for a long time - long before there had been actual atrocities - so it can be reasonably assumed that most workers have no idea they are lending their hand to something that is undeniably evil.


Opinions, anyone?
Cheers,
Bosparan

SNIPPED COMMENT...

Bosparan wrote:Ah, ye good old topic ...

The reviewer's comment on moral fortitude
Now that's one point as might have some validity ... if the whole thing's sole purpose was meant to depict the pure evil of the Bad Guys.
Looking at it from the aspect of the character development of Merlin however ... well that's a whole other matter, I'd say.

The Sanderson Comparison
Let's take the Sanderson comparison: Yes, Sanderson thoroughly explains how magic works in his worlds and how it affects the life of people. That's good, he sets up the rules and sticks to them, giving the reader a very consistent and plausible experience of magic in a fantasy world. I'd call him a master for that.
Now how does that differentiate from RFC? Well, all Sanderson books I remember, it was the main character learning those rules as s/he went about dealing with a personal crisis. All this setting up the rules, always happens as part of the character development (A good example for those who want to read it up: Elantris. Awesome book).

Opinions, anyone?
Cheers,
Bosparan

At David's presentation yesterday (National Book Festival, Washington, DC), he did a great job differentiating between fantasy and science fiction. There's no way I could do his remarks justice - especially from memory. I'll have to pull down the recording from the Library of Congress website when it's posted. What I WILL say however is that when he contrasted the two genres I said to myself "Ah Hah! Now I get it... It's so clear!" This from a fan of both.

WeberFan wrote:At David's presentation yesterday (National Book Festival, Washington, DC), he did a great job differentiating between fantasy and science fiction. There's no way I could do his remarks justice - especially from memory. I'll have to pull down the recording from the Library of Congress website when it's posted. What I WILL say however is that when he contrasted the two genres I said to myself "Ah Hah! Now I get it... It's so clear!" This from a fan of both.

Actually, there are worlds of difference between the two, especially where reader expectations are concerned. I think the best point ever made to underline that difference was a Manga Author who received tons of mails that tigers don't live in Africa, but not a single complaint that they don't talk. (His partially fantasy comedy playing in a slightly modified here&now)

Keith_w wrote:

Thendisnia wrote:Where did Archbishop Makel of Charis get his treecat?

His daughter gave him his cat-lizard. Where did you get the idea he has a tree cat?

Because it is a Cat with 6 limbs whatever Safeholdians wanna call it.