The Court Martial of Faidel Ahlverez--Duke Malikai

Poor old Malikai, the one who gets the blame in Dohlar for the catastrophe that the Dolaran Navy suffered off Armageddon Reef....

I have never felt quite comfortable with this, but it seems to be taken for granted that Malikai's poor decisions opened the way for the disaster. Officially, Thirsk narrowly avoids being scapegoated for what happened, but psst... we really know along with the characters in in the book that Malikai was really to blame.

Is this really true? Was there anything that Malikai could have done to change the outcome? There seem to me to be a number of statements about poor choices Malikai made that are true, but there seems to me to be a disconnect between those choices and what actually happened.

1.We know that he insisted that he follow orders literally come h**l or high water in terms of the course followed without taking into account wind or storm and as a consequence lost ships as the fleet followed the southern route.

2.We also know that after learning the hard way, he became willing to listen to advice and accept recommendations to change course. He did this twice. Once in the aftermath of a storm, he does so on the advice of his own officers. The second time he does so after to listening to White Ford.

3.We know that the interception of Malakai's fleet came as a complete surprise to the Dohlarans. His ships were strung out by individual ships and squadrons for miles with the Tarotsians leading the way.

4.We know that Cayleb's galleons were, as a consequence of that deployment able to engage the Dohlarans, dealing with them in detail rather than attacking an organized and prepared force.

So here are a few questions to kick about as we ascertain Malakai's actual responsibility given the orders he had been given and the choices actually available to him at the time.

1.Could he have ignored Maigwair's orders and followed the northern or coastal route to get him to Tarot without loss of ships?

2.Had he done that, would he have been able to engage the galleons in coastal waters under more favorable conditions to the galleys?

3.The interception began with a single schooner spotting the fleet in the late afternoon. Given the improbability that the schooner represented, discounting hindsight, would it have justified Malikai's issuing an order for the fleet to redeploy, possibly finding a harbor to reorganize or at least an order for the fleet to close up into mutual support range?

4.Given the report that Thirsk gave to his superiors, should they have understood the encounter between new model galleons and galleys could only have one ending regardless of anything Malikai --or Thirst-- might have done?

The bottom line question here is how far Duke Malikai be held responsible for the destruction of the Dohlaran Navy off Armageddon Reef?

Don

n7axw wrote:Poor old Malikai, the one who gets the blame in Dohlar for the catastrophe that the Dolaran Navy suffered off Armageddon Reef....

I have never felt quite comfortable with this, but it seems to be taken for granted that Malikai's poor decisions opened the way for the disaster. Officially, Thirsk narrowly avoids being scapegoated for what happened, but psst... we really know along with the characters in in the book that Malikai was really to blame.

Is this really true? Was there anything that Malikai could have done to change the outcome? There seem to me to be a number of statements about poor choices Malikai made that are true, but there seems to me to be a disconnect between those choices and what actually happened.

1.We know that he insisted that he follow orders literally come h**l or high water in terms of the course followed without taking into account wind or storm and as a consequence lost ships as the fleet followed the southern route.

2.We also know that after learning the hard way, he became willing to listen to advice and accept recommendations to change course. He did this twice. Once in the aftermath of a storm, he does so on the advice of his own officers. The second time he does so after to listening to White Ford.

3.We know that the interception of Malakai's fleet came as a complete surprise to the Dohlarans. His ships were strung out by individual ships and squadrons for miles with the Tarotsians leading the way.

4.We know that Cayleb's galleons were, as a consequence of that deployment able to engage the Dohlarans, dealing with them in detail rather than attacking an organized and prepared force.

So here are a few questions to kick about as we ascertain Malakai's actual responsibility given the orders he had been given and the choices actually available to him at the time.

1.Could he have ignored Maigwair's orders and followed the northern or coastal route to get him to Tarot without loss of ships?

2.Had he done that, would he have been able to engage the galleons in coastal waters under more favorable conditions to the galleys?

3.The interception began with a single schooner spotting the fleet in the late afternoon. Given the improbability that the schooner represented, discounting hindsight, would it have justified Malikai's issuing an order for the fleet to redeploy, possibly finding a harbor to reorganize or at least an order for the fleet to close up into mutual support range?

4.Given the report that Thirsk gave to his superiors, should they have understood the encounter between new model galleons and galleys could only have one ending regardless of anything Malikai --or Thirst-- might have done?

The bottom line question here is how far Duke Malikai be held responsible for the destruction of the Dohlaran Navy off Armageddon Reef?

Don

1. Could he have ignored Maigwair's orders?

This is actually the most important question, as all the rest are a consequence of it.
This was early enough that a person in his position MIGHT possibly been able to convince the GO4 that an alternate route might have been better. Malikai's mistake was not so much following orders, but AGREEING with them, he should have known better, not because of the (then) unknown of an impossible interception by a type of ship armed with weapons they had no clue existed. But to keep his ships from being sunk/damaged by ocean conditions and to deal with the thousand amd one items thay a fleet would need to have done after such a long trip.
Would it have saved them? Doubtful. Most likely Cayleb would have intercepted them between Tarot and Charis.

2. Possible, but again, unlikely. While the Cauldron isn't very large Cayleb should still have been able to pull off the interception, although they might have had a tighter formation that close to Charis (Although that didn't save Black Water)

3. At this point the fleet was toast, nothing short of pulling into a harbor and doing what Thirsk attempted to do was going to help. and, alas for them the harbor that Thirsk attempted to set up in WAS the closest.

4. Had Thirsk been better connected at the highest levels of the kingdom they probably would have, at least in Dohlar.

n7axw wrote:Poor old Malikai, the one who gets the blame in Dohlar for the catastrophe that the Dolaran Navy suffered off Armageddon Reef....

I have never felt quite comfortable with this, but it seems to be taken for granted that Malikai's poor decisions opened the way for the disaster. Officially, Thirsk narrowly avoids being scapegoated for what happened, but psst... we really know along with the characters in in the book that Malikai was really to blame.

Is this really true? Was there anything that Malikai could have done to change the outcome? There seem to me to be a number of statements about poor choices Malikai made that are true, but there seems to me to be a disconnect between those choices and what actually happened.

1.We know that he insisted that he follow orders literally come h**l or high water in terms of the course followed without taking into account wind or storm and as a consequence lost ships as the fleet followed the southern route.

2.We also know that after learning the hard way, he became willing to listen to advice and accept recommendations to change course. He did this twice. Once in the aftermath of a storm, he does so on the advice of his own officers. The second time he does so after to listening to White Ford.

3.We know that the interception of Malakai's fleet came as a complete surprise to the Dohlarans. His ships were strung out by individual ships and squadrons for miles with the Tarotsians leading the way.

4.We know that Cayleb's galleons were, as a consequence of that deployment able to engage the Dohlarans, dealing with them in detail rather than attacking an organized and prepared force.

So here are a few questions to kick about as we ascertain Malakai's actual responsibility given the orders he had been given and the choices actually available to him at the time.

1.Could he have ignored Maigwair's orders and followed the northern or coastal route to get him to Tarot without loss of ships?

2.Had he done that, would he have been able to engage the galleons in coastal waters under more favorable conditions to the galleys?

3.The interception began with a single schooner spotting the fleet in the late afternoon. Given the improbability that the schooner represented, discounting hindsight, would it have justified Malikai's issuing an order for the fleet to redeploy, possibly finding a harbor to reorganize or at least an order for the fleet to close up into mutual support range?

4.Given the report that Thirsk gave to his superiors, should they have understood the encounter between new model galleons and galleys could only have one ending regardless of anything Malikai --or Thirst-- might have done?

The bottom line question here is how far Duke Malikai be held responsible for the destruction of the Dohlaran Navy off Armageddon Reef?

Don

While Malikai was screwed anyway, given the tech disparity and the fact that he was fighting at sea on a breezy day, he isn't
really being judged for losing. Thirsk lost, repeatedly, and he is considered a highly competent officer by most. Malikai is in trouble because he let his fleet get so disorganized, unprepared, and strung out that he would have gotten chewed up badly even if Haarald's fleet had hit him and not Cayleb's. For commanding officers, it's largely not whether you win or lose but how you screw up that counts.

IIRC the Duke was an Army man and would not personally have knowledge of Naval operations. His damnable actions were not listening to his professionals and arrogance.

He died as his punishment - no Court Martial required.

These items are Thirsk's defense in his court martial.

Gracious. Malikai doesn't win any popularity contest on this thread, does he?

Actually guys, for the most part these responses don't really address the issue at hand. I am perfectly willing to concede that he is incompetent as a naval officer. In fact I'll even take it one step further and go on to say that I doubt that he was much better as an army officer. In addition, he was stubborn, arrogant and all the rest.

The charge leveled against Malikai by Sir Durhand Rohsail, a Thorast protoge, in the privacy of his own thoughts is that "he pissed away the entire peacetime navy."

True or no? I suspect that given what we as readers know, like Malakai or not, we would have to aquit Malakai of that. Matching galleys against galleons with the new artillery was going to be a losing proposition, no matter who would have been in command.

But should Rahnauld or Thorast have understood and believed that on the basis of Thirsk's report, given the temptation for arse covering such a report could have done, coming at them cold like it did, suggesting an entirely new paradigm for naval warfare.

Actually, the first person to "get it" is Zhasphar Clyntahn who tumbles to it, not on the basis of reports from Thirsk or White Ford, but from his own inquisitors reporting perceived infractions of the proscriptions.

So... how much should the powers that be have accepted on the basis of the reports of defeated admirals? What would have been a reasonable response to Thirsk and White Ford's reports?

Don