Safeholdian Mineralogy

I ran across this article and it set me to wondering what type of unique minerals there might be on Safehold.
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Earth ... s_999.html
Often I'll see notes in an authors work of unique biological specimens, but with the exception of Anne McCaffery's singing crystals (and StarTrek's ubiquitous dilithium crystals) I can recall few attempts at portraying the unique mineralogy that foreign planets might have. I do believe that David mentioned a substitute for asbestos while discussing the designs for obturating pads for breech-loading artillery, but I'm not sure if it was a comparable mineral unique to Safehold or simply asbestos under a different name. Anyone remember any other unique signatures he might have snuck in?

Cheers;

Larry

Larry wrote:I ran across this article and it set me to wondering what type of unique minerals there might be on Safehold.
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Earth ... s_999.html
Often I'll see notes in an authors work of unique biological specimens, but with the exception of Anne McCaffery's singing crystals (and StarTrek's ubiquitous dilithium crystals) I can recall few attempts at portraying the unique mineralogy that foreign planets might have. I do believe that David mentioned a substitute for asbestos while discussing the designs for obturating pads for breech-loading artillery, but I'm not sure if it was a comparable mineral unique to Safehold or simply asbestos under a different name. Anyone remember any other unique signatures he might have snuck in?

Cheers;

Larry

The substance you are thinking of in the text for breechloader pads is actually asbestos, not a substitute. The text mentions that Howsmyn hoped to get past the need for asbestos quickly, before too many health effects resulted. David has never in any of his books proposed unique minerals, as far as I can recall.

There are quite a few more books out there than you realize depicting unique crystals and minerals. BUT . . .

[planetary scientist hat]
The reason unique minerals are not included in more books is that unique mineralogy doesn't actually make scientific sense. Chemistry and mineralogy are well understood within a fairly broad range of conditions. And the elements found in planetary systems are also well known. We can and do find new minerals and crystal forms, but only in extreme artificial conditions. Unique minerals which we are not familiar with simply are not plausible under conditions which can be found on a terrestrial-type planet.
[/planetary scientist hat]

Larry wrote:I ran across this article and it set me to wondering what type of unique minerals there might be on Safehold.
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Earth ... s_999.html
Often I'll see notes in an authors work of unique biological specimens, but with the exception of Anne McCaffery's singing crystals (and StarTrek's ubiquitous dilithium crystals) I can recall few attempts at portraying the unique mineralogy that foreign planets might have. I do believe that David mentioned a substitute for asbestos while discussing the designs for obturating pads for breech-loading artillery, but I'm not sure if it was a comparable mineral unique to Safehold or simply asbestos under a different name. Anyone remember any other unique signatures he might have snuck in?

Cheers;

Larry

What SWM said. But apart from that -

Unique Safehold minerals could be useful or useless.

In the useless case, they'd have about zero impact on the story anyway, which is really, really detailed enough - at least.

In the useful case, RFC would have even more howling here about "cheating" for Safehold's tech base. I can't see him caring to invite that.

SWM wrote: David has never in any of his books proposed unique minerals, as far as I can recall.

Mutineer's Moon/Armageddon Inheritance - Dahak could not build a new hypercom in the Sol System for lack of specific materials. Does anyone recall (I ask because I certainly do not) if that was a (1) matter of being unable, even through many stages of bootstrapping, to generate them artificially, because (2) they were naturally occurring materials that didn't occur in this system, or because (3) they were naturally occurring materials that didn't not naturally occur in the entire Sol System in sufficient accessible quantity?

SWM wrote:[planetary scientist hat]
The reason unique minerals are not included in more books is that unique mineralogy doesn't actually make scientific sense. Chemistry and mineralogy are well understood within a fairly broad range of conditions. And the elements found in planetary systems are also well known. We can and do find new minerals and crystal forms, but only in extreme artificial conditions. Unique minerals which we are not familiar with simply are not plausible under conditions which can be found on a terrestrial-type planet.
[/planetary scientist hat]

http://www.wired.com/2015/08/life-luck- ... -minerals/

That's not really true. The link provided is for a n article from "Wired" magazine. It explains that a planet's mineralogy is affected by random events. Therefore, even from identical starting conditions two planets can be expected to each have some unique minerals that are only found on one of the planets. Of course the majority of these unique minerals are going to be quite rare and will likely only be of potential use as gemstones.

However, a planet's life forms also have a significant affect on that planet's mineralogy. Since Safehold had Earth lifeforms have significant;y different bio-chemistries, it would be natural to expect those differences to show up in Safehold's minerals. Things like marine animals using silicon carbide for exoskeletons instead of calcium carbide would result in large silicon carbide deposits on Safehold but not much limestone.

Easternmystic wrote:

SWM wrote:[planetary scientist hat]
The reason unique minerals are not included in more books is that unique mineralogy doesn't actually make scientific sense. Chemistry and mineralogy are well understood within a fairly broad range of conditions. And the elements found in planetary systems are also well known. We can and do find new minerals and crystal forms, but only in extreme artificial conditions. Unique minerals which we are not familiar with simply are not plausible under conditions which can be found on a terrestrial-type planet.
[/planetary scientist hat]

http://www.wired.com/2015/08/life-luck- ... -minerals/

That's not really true. The link provided is for a n article from "Wired" magazine. It explains that a planet's mineralogy is affected by random events. Therefore, even from identical starting conditions two planets can be expected to each have some unique minerals that are only found on one of the planets. Of course the majority of these unique minerals are going to be quite rare and will likely only be of potential use as gemstones.

However, a planet's life forms also have a significant affect on that planet's mineralogy. Since Safehold had Earth lifeforms have significant;y different bio-chemistries, it would be natural to expect those differences to show up in Safehold's minerals. Things like marine animals using silicon carbide for exoskeletons instead of calcium carbide would result in large silicon carbide deposits on Safehold but not much limestone.

The only effect of life on Earth minerals described in the article is the creation of an oxygen atmosphere. The article does not suggest that different biochemistries results in different minerals.

However, reading the article more carefully, it does appear that the author is posing questions which had not really been asked before. I was interpreting the original poster too narrowly, distracted by references to Crystal Singer. It does appear that Hazen may have some good points. The common minerals should be similar, given similar starting elements. But it is plausible that local concentrations and conditions can cause rare minerals which are essentially unique.

So, I change my statement to: the reason stuff like that doesn't appear more often in fiction is because it wasn't a major consideration in science before.

JeffEngel wrote:Mutineer's Moon/Armageddon Inheritance - Dahak could not build a new hypercom in the Sol System for lack of specific materials. Does anyone recall (I ask because I certainly do not) if that was a (1) matter of being unable, even through many stages of bootstrapping, to generate them artificially, because (2) they were naturally occurring materials that didn't occur in this system, or because (3) they were naturally occurring materials that didn't not naturally occur in the entire Sol System in sufficient accessible quantity?

It was a synthetic element called Mycosan. The mutineers took Dahak's total supply with them to Earth and it could not be produced from Dahak's onboard resources.

BigCuz wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:Mutineer's Moon/Armageddon Inheritance - Dahak could not build a new hypercom in the Sol System for lack of specific materials. Does anyone recall (I ask because I certainly do not) if that was a (1) matter of being unable, even through many stages of bootstrapping, to generate them artificially, because (2) they were naturally occurring materials that didn't occur in this system, or because (3) they were naturally occurring materials that didn't not naturally occur in the entire Sol System in sufficient accessible quantity?

It was a synthetic element called Mycosan. The mutineers took Dahak's total supply with them to Earth and it could not be produced from Dahak's onboard resources.

Gracious, what does it take to synthesize it? Dahak's resources weren't small, although he did have limited time after swallowing Colin and before the Achuultani would arrive, and a limited security to risk showing off how active he was again before that. Was it either of those, or a combination, that prevented him from building the tools to build the tools to... synthesize mycosan?

The trouble in Sci-Fi with such things is that unique elements and minerals can all too often become MacGuffins, and while RFC does not shy away from explaining the science behind his imagined universes, he does like to remain as close as he can to established scientific facts. The temptation to turn such a mineral into something like STar Trek's Dilithium Crystals, Stargate's Naqwadah or Superman's Kryptonite would be great and RFC generally avoids such shortcuts.

However, Safehold does have several unique native materials, such as cotton-silk and steel thistle silk. Asimov, in his novel "The Currents of Space" describes how a unique cosmic phenomenon creates "kyrt", a versatile and fluorescent fiber that can only be grown on Florina (growing it anywhere else only yields cellulose). Yet RFC also points out that technological advances will create synthetic clothing that do everything natural fibers can do and more for a fraction of the price (ditto for synthetic building materials).

A little something about bacteria-processed minerals:
http://femsec.oxfordjournals.org/content/26/2/79