Desnair raiding strategy

So due to the fact their ships cant fight the charis ones, they are doing commerce raidong to mess with their efforts. They also disperses their ship building ability so no singular place that can be destroyed to stop them. Most of their war fleet was destroyed, but their naval ships and asseys in the capital and another city remained intact.
I was thinking while the raiding might continue, if those two cities were dealt with, how much damage would it do to desnair? we know there are economic issues, how much would the loss of these locations push the situation? the gold desnair was sending to the church would be needed to rebuild, those two cities were likely supplying thier armies as well.
the ships will contine raiding, but the rest of desnair contribution to the war will be deeply hampered.

SYED wrote:So due to the fact their ships cant fight the charis ones, they are doing commerce raidong to mess with their efforts. They also disperses their ship building ability so no singular place that can be destroyed to stop them. Most of their war fleet was destroyed, but their naval ships and asseys in the capital and another city remained intact.
I was thinking while the raiding might continue, if those two cities were dealt with, how much damage would it do to desnair? we know there are economic issues, how much would the loss of these locations push the situation? the gold desnair was sending to the church would be needed to rebuild, those two cities were likely supplying thier armies as well.
the ships will contine raiding, but the rest of desnair contribution to the war will be deeply hampered.

Well, the two main building sites for their navy were Ithyria and Geyra, near Desnair the City. Ithyria is already gone and Geyra wasn't that big.

I doubt that Desnair will be contributing much to the Temple's war effort once Howard is cut off by land and the ICN takes control of the Gulf of Dohlar. For this round, at least, about all that's left to Desnair is commerce raiding.

Don

Hi Don,

SYED, since Desnar needed subsidies from the CoGA in MTaT I doubt any more gold has been leaving since, as keeping it is so much simpler.

Given the Mohryah Lode, more KH VII's are probably already under construction, how many is probably another thread, of which some will probably be dispatched to settle with Geyra and Desnar, if the bombardment ships don't beat them to it earlier, which given their range advantage is quite possible.

L

n7axw wrote:

SYED wrote:So due to the fact their ships cant fight the charis ones, they are doing commerce raidong to mess with their efforts. They also disperses their ship building ability so no singular place that can be destroyed to stop them. Most of their war fleet was destroyed, but their naval ships and asseys in the capital and another city remained intact.
I was thinking while the raiding might continue, if those two cities were dealt with, how much damage would it do to desnair? we know there are economic issues, how much would the loss of these locations push the situation? the gold desnair was sending to the church would be needed to rebuild, those two cities were likely supplying thier armies as well.
the ships will contine raiding, but the rest of desnair contribution to the war will be deeply hampered.

Well, the two main building sites for their navy were Ithyria and Geyra, near Desnair the City. Ithyria is already gone and Geyra wasn't that big.

I doubt that Desnair will be contributing much to the Temple's war effort once Howard is cut off by land and the ICN takes control of the Gulf of Dohlar. For this round, at least, about all that's left to Desnair is commerce raiding.

Don

Perhaps the bombardment ships or the Haarahlds will be used against Desnair, but there is really not much of serious military value left for them to hit, although I suppose they could still take out Geyra.

I think that the main action against Desnair will be done with the Cities ironclads looking to hunt and smoke out those ad hoc shipyards cropping up to build privateers while the rest of the navy, esp the schooners, provide commerce protection for convoys.

Don

n7axw wrote:Perhaps the bombardment ships or the Haarahlds will be used against Desnair, but there is really not much of serious military value left for them to hit, although I suppose they could still take out Geyra.

I think that the main action against Desnair will be done with the Cities ironclads looking to hunt and smoke out those ad hoc shipyards cropping up to build privateers while the rest of the navy, esp the schooners, provide commerce protection for convoys.

Don

I'm actually surprised that Geyra and the last few galleons of the Desnairan portion of the NoG haven't been destroyed yet. There's no reason for the ICN to leave ANY mainland realm with a major port that hasn't been blown to smithereens, plus the map makes it appear that there may be access to either a lake or an inlet by passing through/by Geyra. (If RFC needs such a passage of course!)

Granted, Geyra may well be the next target for the fleet in the Gulf of Jahras, so Desnair may be about to get its last major ports hammered. Blowing up the waterfronts and anything in port in both Geyra and the capital city of Desnair is long overdue. Time to teach the haughty dweebs that there's a serious price for invading one's ally, and that during a jihad, the ICN isn't about to leave any major enemy port unscathed. Plus shelling enemy palaces is fun! (And teaches a rather valuable lesson...)

Hi McGuiness,

Which ally did they invade?

Silkiah wasn't an ally, and besides the CoGA told them to do it, even if it was really the Go4.

NTM, Siddarmark certainly has never been an ally.

Desnar has only around 21 galleons and they and all the port facilities should all be in range of the bombardment ships while being beyond any Desnari cannon, to contrast the difference of what happened to Iythria.

The same is probably true for most of the schooner shipyards up rivers or creeks.

The ICN can't and won't stop the Desnari building the schooners at the probably few places currently out of range of the bombardment ships until the KH VII's or new bombardment ships with the 10" guns do take them out, but I expect the Desnari to keep trying to hurt the allies any way they can, including finding new places etc.

Taking out palaces may be fun, but will that really improve things from the allies perspective/

Creating a multi-generational personal feud between the respective royal houses by possibly killing not just the emperor but children and grandchildren, NTM other relatives besides beloved friends and servants, doesn't promote the eventual patching up that will eventually be needed.

Demonstrating the palace is well within range by straddling it or hitting targets further away, then giving them a day or two to evacuate ought to provide enough time, but such an attack will also infuriate all too many more Desnari who will take it as another humiliation that must be repaid in full.

L

McGuiness wrote:

n7axw wrote:Perhaps the bombardment ships or the Haarahlds will be used against Desnair, but there is really not much of serious military value left for them to hit, although I suppose they could still take out Geyra.

I think that the main action against Desnair will be done with the Cities ironclads looking to hunt and smoke out those ad hoc shipyards cropping up to build privateers while the rest of the navy, esp the schooners, provide commerce protection for convoys.

Don

I'm actually surprised that Geyra and the last few galleons of the Desnairan portion of the NoG haven't been destroyed yet. There's no reason for the ICN to leave ANY mainland realm with a major port that hasn't been blown to smithereens, plus the map makes it appear that there may be access to either a lake or an inlet by passing through/by Geyra. (If RFC needs such a passage of course!)

Granted, Geyra may well be the next target for the fleet in the Gulf of Jahras, so Desnair may be about to get its last major ports hammered. Blowing up the waterfronts and anything in port in both Geyra and the capital city of Desnair is long overdue. Time to teach the haughty dweebs that there's a serious price for invading one's ally, and that during a jihad, the ICN isn't about to leave any major enemy port unscathed. Plus shelling enemy palaces is fun! (And teaches a rather valuable lesson...)

Except for taking out the shipyards and possibly the galleons, there is really not a point in doing anything other than acting against the shipyards building the privateers. After Howard is isolated, it may be time to offer Desnair a way out of the war.

Don

lyonheart wrote:Hi McGuiness,

Which ally did they invade?

Silkiah wasn't an ally, and besides the CoGA told them to do it, even if it was really the Go4.

NTM, Siddarmark certainly has never been an ally.

I gather McGuiness meant an ally of Charis, not Desnair - in this case, Siddarmark. (Although I'd have to double-check the timeline to see if Siddarmark was a formal Charisian ally by the time Desnairian troops were on their way there.)

Desnar has only around 21 galleons and they and all the port facilities should all be in range of the bombardment ships while being beyond any Desnari cannon, to contrast the difference of what happened to Iythria.

The same is probably true for most of the schooner shipyards up rivers or creeks.

The ICN can't and won't stop the Desnari building the schooners at the probably few places currently out of range of the bombardment ships until the KH VII's or new bombardment ships with the 10" guns do take them out, but I expect the Desnari to keep trying to hurt the allies any way they can, including finding new places etc.

Taking out palaces may be fun, but will that really improve things from the allies perspective/

Creating a multi-generational personal feud between the respective royal houses by possibly killing not just the emperor but children and grandchildren, NTM other relatives besides beloved friends and servants, doesn't promote the eventual patching up that will eventually be needed.

Demonstrating the palace is well within range by straddling it or hitting targets further away, then giving them a day or two to evacuate ought to provide enough time, but such an attack will also infuriate all too many more Desnari who will take it as another humiliation that must be repaid in full.

L

Maybe there are wide open lawns that can be targeted. Or they could announce particular targets, at a range from the ships at least as great as the palace, and demonstrate capabilities without hurting anyone. Property, on the other hand, is something they needn't have serious qualms about wrecking to make points.

At this point, Desnair has taken enough damage that it should be well aware that fighting Charis or Siddarmark has been, is, and will continue to be a losing proposition. Their heads are bit thick, so pointed reminders - and knocking the commerce-raiding weapon out of their hands - are still required. But it ought to be consistent with the point that Desnair can opt out of being Charis' enemy any time it cares to, and it ought to avoid anything that could make the continuation of the jihad popular.

WHy not hire people from the republic to expand their own raiding force and loose them on desnair? They could raid hte little coves and bays the desnair ships are using.

Hi JeeEngel,

Nope, Siddarmark didn't become an EoC ally until after Cayleb signed the treaty in SC at the beginning of May of 896, and given the distance, Hanth arrived later the same month, while Taisyn had come in April with some of the food convoys.

Regarding Desnar, I'd take out all the imperial arsenals and factories supporting the Desnari war effort in Geyra and Desnar, and one might demonstrate the bombardment ships can do that a mile out of range of anything the Desnari have and then give the Desnari 26-53 hours to evacuate everything within 1000 yards of all military and industrial targets, which given the dispersion of indirect fire with few forward observers to have eyes on to correct it, would be a commendable caution.

By the time this happens, the ICN might have some 8" or 10" rifled 'angle' guns to help flatten the targets, carried in modified armored sailing ships or steam freighters, firing well out of range of any need for armor.

Given the quality of the Desnari high command, the ICN will forego normal C^2 targets.

Granted if Rock Point's in command or somebody with SNARC support, some officials might be targeted if there are good justified practical reasons.

Finding somebody who can argue successfully and forcefully that now is not the time to keep this going, especially after the land link to Zion is lost may be high on Nahrmahn's intel list, and then eliminating those in his way for a possible truce or armistice.

The countdown continues at 44 days and less.

L

JeffEngel wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi McGuiness,

Which ally did they invade?

Silkiah wasn't an ally, and besides the CoGA told them to do it, even if it was really the Go4.

NTM, Siddarmark certainly has never been an ally.

I gather McGuiness meant an ally of Charis, not Desnair - in this case, Siddarmark. (Although I'd have to double-check the timeline to see if Siddarmark was a formal Charisian ally by the time Desnairian troops were on their way there.)

Desnar has only around 21 galleons and they and all the port facilities should all be in range of the bombardment ships while being beyond any Desnari cannon, to contrast the difference of what happened to Iythria.

The same is probably true for most of the schooner shipyards up rivers or creeks.

The ICN can't and won't stop the Desnari building the schooners at the probably few places currently out of range of the bombardment ships until the KH VII's or new bombardment ships with the 10" guns do take them out, but I expect the Desnari to keep trying to hurt the allies any way they can, including finding new places etc.

Taking out palaces may be fun, but will that really improve things from the allies perspective/

Creating a multi-generational personal feud between the respective royal houses by possibly killing not just the emperor but children and grandchildren, NTM other relatives besides beloved friends and servants, doesn't promote the eventual patching up that will eventually be needed.

Demonstrating the palace is well within range by straddling it or hitting targets further away, then giving them a day or two to evacuate ought to provide enough time, but such an attack will also infuriate all too many more Desnari who will take it as another humiliation that must be repaid in full.

L

Maybe there are wide open lawns that can be targeted. Or they could announce particular targets, at a range from the ships at least as great as the palace, and demonstrate capabilities without hurting anyone. Property, on the other hand, is something they needn't have serious qualms about wrecking to make points.

At this point, Desnair has taken enough damage that it should be well aware that fighting Charis or Siddarmark has been, is, and will continue to be a losing proposition. Their heads are bit thick, so pointed reminders - and knocking the commerce-raiding weapon out of their hands - are still required. But it ought to be consistent with the point that Desnair can opt out of being Charis' enemy any time it cares to, and it ought to avoid anything that could make the continuation of the jihad popular.