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HFQ Official Snippet #28

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: HFQ Official Snippet #28
Post by n7axw   » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:18 pm

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WeberFan wrote:
Hey Don,

Second your point about the war toward the east disrupting Zion's supplies.

There is already evidence that the war has disrupted the flow of coal to Zion from Glacierhart Province, and further evidence that the flow can't be made up from Harchong mines because it all has to be transported overland instead of via canal.

I suspect that when Howard is "cut off" by sea (Claw Island forces patrolling the Gulf of Dohlar and its various bays, sounds, and gulfs), and by land (Hanth and his threatening position at the throat / chokepoint west of Thesmar combined with the fleet's presence in the Gulf of Jahras), that the food supply for that large population to the north will also be threatened.


Lyonheart probably does have a point about the Temple Lands as primary sourse of supply, although, IIRC, Western Siddarmark's farmers used to export food that direction. And there is Harchong's big plantation sized farms who export a quite a bit. But I do believe they are probably experiencing a labor shortage as abruptly as the MHOG was recruited.

So, a food shortage is possible, but we should be cautious about predicting one.

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #28
Post by Easternmystic   » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:09 am

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Hi Lyonheart,

Not all of those galleons can be filled to maximum wight capacity. Things like roughage for the horses is big bulky and fairly light. Bedding even more so. Many more ships are going to be required than you have calculated.

Expect a significant amount of spoilage of food and fodder due to pests and the environment as well. Food and fodder will have to be increased by at least 20- 30% above the actually requirements to account for spoiled perishables.

What's the point of sending an army is they will spend the entire winter indoors. The army will have to conduct regular operations just to sharp. Then their are the troops doing regular maintance dities like feeding, watering and exercising the horses and mucking the stalls that will need extra rations. There will also be a need to patrol Zion to maintain order. Those troops will alos need extra rations.

To top it all off you are arriving in the fall so have maybe a month to bring in all the supplies you will need for the next 5 to 6 months. You will also have to build housing and corrals for your army as well as build secure depots for your mountain of supplies before winter starts.

Finally, there is the simple fact that you have no way to force your way into the temple. Capture the flag strategies only work when it;s actually possible to capture said flag.

lyonheart wrote:Hi EasternMystic,

I wonder how well you read my post.

Specifically how few average galleons are required for 81,000 tons of supplies [63], including 60,000 tons of fodder for 200 days not 3 month's or 90 days.

Those 63 are less than 1/40 of the EoC fleet, and the fact I expect several times that figure of above average galleons to deliver their cargo before winter, before adding the likely steam freighters.

I expect quite a lot of Zion's million plus population will flee the city before winter, and it should have plenty of room for 20-30,000 horses, since there should be around half a million already there; so after the panic, there should be plenty of stables and barracks, even if the alliance expels some from a specific suburb or locale to fortify what it needs.

Of course the supplies Zion requires for the winter requires them to start deliveries early, so by fall most should have already arrived, including most of the fodder for the horses, dragons, reindeer, and snow lizards; which will make any excess alliance demands a relative drop in the bucket.

The double or triple rations you mention are primarily needed for combat operations, and since Clyntahn has kept the Temple Guard and any serious military force away from Zion and the temple, coupled with the surprise of BGV's appearance, it will take until spring before the CoGA could provide any serious military response at the earliest.

Since Clyntahn won't be leaving the temple to flee, who will organise his Rakurai, and why do you assume they're close enough when I suspect Merlin and Nimue might preempt such attacks?

Even if Rayno survives, I don't think he'll be that dumb; or if someone does takes over to make such attacks, can you imagine a better way to infuriate the remaining TL population than attempt to destroy their winter supplies?

What better way to validate what the alliance has been saying about the inquisition all along.

Remember Corisande.

If you were an inquisitor still in Zion after some such attacks, what are the odds someone recognizes you as part of the inquisition and you learn how to dance on the end of a short rope if you're lucky, and what happens to all inquisitors come spring?

While there may be some who attempt such, I don't expect them to be very successful, since the people will be setting their own guards over their own supplies, as the new city administration directs.

L


Easternmystic wrote:Zion is in an arctic environment. If you expect troops to be doing anything outside you will have to provide double or even triple rations. The Reindeer ,ay be OK but don't expect to find any vegetation for the horses, it will all have to hauled to Zion. Once again, arctic environment, double or triple rations for at least 3 months unless you can provide interior habitat for all the horses. At the very least you will have to build sufficient windbreaks and cover for all the livestock.

Then their is the fact you will now be responsible for the well being of the civilians. This will require an assessment of the needs and resources of the city and likely more resources brought in for keep the civilians from starving.

Then you have to consider what the COGA might be doing over the winter, Their most probable action would be to seed Rakurai among the civilians with Caches of food, weapons and explosives. After the passage freezes, They start targeting civilians, supply depots isolated patrols. They don't have have to destroy very many supply depots before disaster strikes.

Sending an army when you can supply them, for 5 or six months is a good way af killing off an entire army.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #28
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:28 am

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Easternmystic wrote:Finally, there is the simple fact that you have no way to force your way into the temple. Capture the flag strategies only work when it;s actually possible to capture said flag.


It probably won't be necessary to force entry into the Temple; barring some miraculous provision of food, establish a siege of the Temple that prevents resupply and eventually the Temple will either be surrendered or rendered permanently inaccessible (i.e. everyone inside dies without unlocking the doors.)
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #28
Post by n7axw   » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:39 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
Easternmystic wrote:Finally, there is the simple fact that you have no way to force your way into the temple. Capture the flag strategies only work when it;s actually possible to capture said flag.


It probably won't be necessary to force entry into the Temple; barring some miraculous provision of food, establish a siege of the Temple that prevents resupply and eventually the Temple will either be surrendered or rendered permanently inaccessible (i.e. everyone inside dies without unlocking the doors.)


Or someone tunnels in supplies or maybe everyone escapes out the tunnel without anyone noticing.... Be a dickens of a note for the allies to besiege an empty facility, wouldn't it? :lol:

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #28
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:36 am

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n7axw wrote:Or someone tunnels in supplies or maybe everyone escapes out the tunnel without anyone noticing.... Be a dickens of a note for the allies to besiege an empty facility, wouldn't it? :lol:

Don


As long as the CoGA can't use it, the Allies win.

Speaking of tunnels...

I kind of halfway expect the old church used by the Circle to hide a secret tunnel into the Temple that Clyntahn and the Temple security know nothing about. But Nynian and Co do.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #28
Post by Easternmystic   » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:38 am

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Unless the act of sealing the temple activates emergency defense measures like automated weapon platforms to defend the temple and hydroponic bays to grow emergency rations to feed those inside the temple. I mean how likely is it that an emergency action like sealing up the holiest site on Safehold would activate any automated emergency measures.

There's also likely to be Rakurai agents and Inquisition spies hidden in Zion and the port prepared to conduct sabotage like burning supply depots and housing, basically doing anything they can to hinder the occupation. They will have a target rich environment and they only have to destroy 15-20% of the supplies to place the occupation in serious trouble.

Weird Harold wrote:
Easternmystic wrote:Finally, there is the simple fact that you have no way to force your way into the temple. Capture the flag strategies only work when it;s actually possible to capture said flag.


It probably won't be necessary to force entry into the Temple; barring some miraculous provision of food, establish a siege of the Temple that prevents resupply and eventually the Temple will either be surrendered or rendered permanently inaccessible (i.e. everyone inside dies without unlocking the doors.)
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #28
Post by n7axw   » Wed Aug 26, 2015 2:57 pm

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What you do is penetrate the place with pilgrims dressed in monk's robes to hide weapons. With a little luck, Major Phandys or one of Nynian's contacts has the combination to the front door and...viola!

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #28
Post by Easternmystic   » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:19 am

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I keep getting a mental image of Eastshare's reaction to hearing a battle plan that includes the phrase "with a little luck" to describe one of the requirements for a satisfactory outcome to a campaign. I'm sure it would have to top his reaction to finding out that one of his most trusted subordinates and friends was a traitor. I'm also pretty sure that it would be NSFW.

n7axw wrote:What you do is penetrate the place with pilgrims dressed in monk's robes to hide weapons. With a little luck, Major Phandys or one of Nynian's contacts has the combination to the front door and...viola!

Don
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #28
Post by Expert snuggler   » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:10 pm

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Pilgrims from where? At a guess Charisians aren't welcome in the Temple at the moment (which probably violates Writ). If it were anyone besides Charisian Marines or the ghost of a Terran Federation officer, personnel reliability would be a serious worry.
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Re: HFQ Official Snippet #28
Post by n7axw   » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:20 pm

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Expert snuggler wrote:Pilgrims from where? At a guess Charisians aren't welcome in the Temple at the moment (which probably violates Writ). If it were anyone besides Charisian Marines or the ghost of a Terran Federation officer, personnel reliability would be a serious worry.


Oh, I don't know, lots of folk in western who wouldn't mind getting a bit of their own back. How better to do it than make a pilgrimage to the Temple... :twisted:

As for DE and the little bit of luck thing, I'm sure he knows that there are no guarantees. In fact, although he wouldn't call it that, I bet he's familiar with Murphy's law...

Don
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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