Future $Economic Crash$ In The Honorverse? . . .

This may or may not reflect world economic tensions today regarding China and elsewhere, Friday, 21 August, 2015. I was wondering if Mr. Weber will include words, language or other addressing potential Honorverse economic instability during the next several years in the storyline? How and why the wheels may come off the galactic economy with the resulting implications?

HB of CJ wrote:This may or may not reflect world economic tensions today regarding China and elsewhere, Friday, 21 August, 2015. I was wondering if Mr. Weber will include words, language or other addressing potential Honorverse economic instability during the next several years in the storyline? How and why the wheels may come off the galactic economy with the resulting implications?

There's growing concern within the League about the effect of the sudden loss of Manty shipping and access to Manty-controlled wormholes. The general feeling is that it's going to suck.

It is difficult to believe that there could be an economic crash in the Honorverse. There, you have all of the desired conditions. Unlimited resources, high technology, interplanetary travel, intergalactic travel and a cap on population because of the wars and rumors of wars. Certainly in the Haven sector. And wars, in the Haven sector, if the model follows closely here, creates jobs in the private sector.

It could be the very wars that gives life and takes it away - regarding economics, regarding mortality. What is the most populated planet in the Honorverse per terms of density per habitable real estate? Per resources? I'd like to have a comparison in that respect to Earth.

What is the impact of a very rich citizen moving to another system? What would be the impact to Manticore if Hauptman and Stacey decided to uproot and move out in the Verge or anywhere within the League? What are the legal considerations, the laws of Manticore? How much of his fortune will Hauptman forfeit. It isn't easy, that's a fact. Remember the legal hoops Honor's accountant jumped through to funnel her funds to Grayson?

Could the horrendous cost of wars threaten a planet even more than the enemy?

cthia wrote:It is difficult to believe that there could be an economic crash in the Honorverse. There, you have all of the desired conditions. Unlimited resources, high technology, interplanetary travel, intergalactic travel and a cap on population because of the wars and rumors of wars. Certainly in the Haven sector. And wars, in the Haven sector, if the model follows closely here, creates jobs in the private sector.
...

True, except for one minor detail: Manticore is engaging in "Economic Warfare" with Lacoon I & II. They are deliberately and explicitly waging war on the SLN's economy and, in the process, inflicting a good deal of collateral damage on their own Merchant Marine and a large part of their own economy.

It is going to take some extraordinary measures to prevent a galactic depression that will make the Great Depression of the 1930s look like one late paycheck.

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:It is difficult to believe that there could be an economic crash in the Honorverse. There, you have all of the desired conditions. Unlimited resources, high technology, interplanetary travel, intergalactic travel and a cap on population because of the wars and rumors of wars. Certainly in the Haven sector. And wars, in the Haven sector, if the model follows closely here, creates jobs in the private sector.
...

True, except for one minor detail: Manticore is engaging in "Economic Warfare" with Lacoon I & II. They are deliberately and explicitly waging war on the SLN's economy and, in the process, inflicting a good deal of collateral damage on their own Merchant Marine and a large part of their own economy.

It is going to take some extraordinary measures to prevent a galactic depression that will make the Great Depression of the 1930s look like one late paycheck.

Absolutely Harold. I meant to elaborate on that. I touched on it, with the "wars that give life also take it away."

Good point.

Again, as I mentioned before, I don't see why the League doesn't use the fact that its citizens may begin to starve by this massive blockade to rally its troops. Troops being government backing to build with the people's support.

cthia wrote:Again, as I mentioned before, I don't see why the League doesn't use the fact that its citizens may begin to starve by this massive blockade to rally its troops. Troops being government backing to build with the people's support.

I doubt that anyone is going starve; RFC has said that there is no planet in the Honorverse that cannot survive out of its own resources. The welfare rolls might explode, and a few fat-cats might try base jumping from the 7000th floor without a countergrav harness, but I don't see anyone actually starving.

Most solar systems should be fairly self-sufficient, particularly in the Core League, and even the Shell should mostly be fine.


The long-distance trading, that Manticore handled, was the super-profitable, and/or industrial type hauling. We had that one example, of the freighter that was supposed to be hauling hull plating 3/4 of the way around the League, which would be ships (possibly the 'lucrative' superdreadnought building programs?).

Other examples, would be the Montanan beef going to Mobius (and other locations) sort of thing, using the MWJ to deliver it super-fresh, and no preservatives sort of thing.



But I don't believe a lot of systems will be ready to absorb huge unemployment expenses, etc like this, so there's definitely going to be an economic shock. But unless it's a star system like Grayson (pre-Alliance), or that Andermani system that had the same sort of need for gene-engineered crops.... no system should truly go hungry. They'll be racking up one helluva lot of debts, which could be a prime factor for the Renaissance Factor to get their claws into non-founding Mesan systems.

Sort of a "sure, we'll send you foodstuffs, and other supplies to keep you from going belly-up.... and we won't even charge you a penny-cred. But in exchange for these supplies, we expect you to ..." sort of deals between the RF and various beleaguered solar systems.

Weird Harold wrote:

cthia wrote:Again, as I mentioned before, I don't see why the League doesn't use the fact that its citizens may begin to starve by this massive blockade to rally its troops. Troops being government backing to build with the people's support.

I doubt that anyone is going starve; RFC has said that there is no planet in the Honorverse that cannot survive out of its own resources. The welfare rolls might explode, and a few fat-cats might try base jumping from the 7000th floor without a countergrav harness, but I don't see anyone actually starving.

The League Constitution probably does not prohibit the government from selling tickets to watch those base jumping attempts. That may keep the Mandarins funded. I'd buy a ticket. Popcorn too!

It'd be interesting to know whether gold would retain its value in an Honorverse.

cthia wrote:It'd be interesting to know whether gold would retain its value in an Honorverse.

I doubt it. There might not be a high concentration of gold in a system's asteroids; but the mining technologies are so efficient that it should still be quite plentiful. And it's really only gold's scarcity that makes it expensive.

It has some valuable properties for electronics (but possibly not so much by the time you're dealing with superconductors and molycircs. Otoh there is probably still expensive gold jewelry; but expensive for the workmanship and aesthetic qualities, not the inherent cost of the material.