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Information I'd love to know

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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by JeffEngel   » Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:07 pm

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cthia wrote:
JeffEngel wrote:I've figured an Honorverse "lifeboat" is simply a cutter, pinnace or other small craft put to that use, rather than a distinct sort of vehicle.

Indeed Jeff. Yours is the only other possibility I could think of to explain there being two designations. But that refers back to my previous question. You hear of lifeboats being picked up. Once they are, their wedges could be brought up in kamikaze fashion inside the rescuer's boat bay. It wouldn't bode well for future survivors but it seems it's a possibility by a scruple-less commander really wanting to destroy Honor Harrington.

Bringing a wedge up inside a boat bay is not easy, so you do have to add in some technical skill in addition to being a suicide bomber. Also, if anyone does that even once, their navy can kiss off reliable pickups in case of honorable surrender. The laws and customs of war are there to put some kind of firewall there to keep people within shouting distance of civilization. No professional navy is going to be casual about violating them. (Though some individuals, of course, may be, and kittens save us all from the unprofessional navies.)

If there's a real concern about it though, navies could require surrenderers to come aboard in skinsuits, lifepods, or cutters without wedges, and keep pinnaces well away. Yes, some people may end up dead that way, but if your people have made the other people worried that you're going to kill them when they are trying to save your homicidal butts, take it up with them, boyo.
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by cthia   » Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:34 am

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Hutch wrote:
cthia wrote:Okay, now I can't find info in the Pearls regarding lifeboats. Was I not issued a proper access code or something. :roll:

I'm trying to figure out the difference between lifepods and lifeboats. Do lifeboats have wedges? I'm remembering when Harkness showed what happens when you bring up a wedge in the boat bay. I'm assuming that was the wedge of a lifeboat? What is the range of a lifeboat? Occupant capacity?

Also, if lifeboats have wedges then can't they be used to suicide/kamikaze a ship that picks you up by activating the wedge once you're inside their boat bay?


Good questions. I've always taken life-pods and life-boats to be the same, emergency evacuation vessels and not something you'd find on the flight deck.

The wedge Horace and Scotty brought up during "In Enemy Hands" was a pinnace, IIRC.

Only real item I remember (others may have more) about a life pod/boats capabilities came from Mission of Honor, as Mike Henke was talking to SLN Admiral O'Kleely:

"Before you say a word, Admiral. I advise you to consider your position carefully. As you've just acknowledged, interstellar law requires you to obey my lawful commands. I, on the other hand, am obligated to provide for the reasonable safety of your personnel as long as you and they do obey my lawful commands. The planet Flax is less than one million kilometers from your present position. That's well within the powered range of your life pods, even allowing a two hundred percent reserve for an unassisted landing. In short, removing your personnel from your vessels in the manner I've indicated poses no threat to life or limb, assuming you've properly maintained the equipment in question. As a consequence, I'm formally informing you that failure to comply with this instruction will be interpreted as a decision on your part to resume hostilities."


So, I would guess that while the life pods are powered, I don't think they would have an impeller; more likely some sort of hihgly efficient fuel-driven engine.

Interested to see if others have any thoughts on this.

cthia wrote:
Thanks again Hutch. If they are one and the same then I don't think they do have wedges because of an incident that I somewhat remember. Overall names and the partcular incident escapes me, but a Manty Commander ordered a SLN Commander to evacuate ship in a specific manner and stated that the pods should have enuff endurance to make a rough landing on planet which suggests limited endurance, power. Hence, no wedge?

At any rate, the terms seem to be interchangeable which throws me off if they're the same. Unless Pinnaces are considered lifeboats by their emergency utility.

I'm going to reread the passage in "Mission of Honor" where emergency evacuation procedures were being carried out on Weyland that saved so many lives. I thought they were boats.

But it seems that whatever was used in the simulated emergency evacs aboard Weyland didn't have wedges or some of those boats would have been back en route when the attack came in and possibly would have been destroyed.

Are lifepods single or double occupancy? It would be nice if officers had company out in the darkest regions of space. However, there are certain to be limitations on resources that more than one occupant would quickly deplete.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by Weird Harold   » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:22 am

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cthia wrote:Are lifepods single or double occupancy? It would be nice if officers had company out in the darkest regions of space. However, there are certain to be limitations on resources that more than one occupant would quickly deplete.


The Lifepods HMAMC Wayfarer was equipped with were big enough for at least Randy Stileman and his confederates. I think they were considerably bigger than the four deserters would need; I seem to recall a mention of ten-man capacity.

To help you distinguish a difference:

a "Lifepod"

Image

A lifeboat

Image
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by cthia   » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:56 am

cthia
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Weird Harold wrote:The Lifepods HMAMC Wayfarer was equipped with were big enough for at least Randy Stileman and his confederates. I think they were considerably bigger than the four deserters would need; I seem to recall a mention of ten-man capacity.

Thanks for the post. Which begats even more questions and concerns, especially since you brought up Steilman.

Is it one shared compartment sharing all available resources or compartmentalized resources? I can imagine having to argue with Steilman to "shut the hell up and stop wasting oxygen!" Or frightened, anxious occupants heart rate also eating up oxygen supply. I could steady my heart rate, exercise NO talking or movement and ration my oxygen reserves. If there is a woman who is running out of oxygen, can it be shared? Interesting questions, IMO.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by Weird Harold   » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:06 am

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cthia wrote:Is it one shared compartment sharing all available resources or compartmentalized resources?


See pictures above.

Google "life raft"
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by cthia   » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:06 am

cthia
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Pritchart returned the 40,000 people who were unable to evacuate during the Battle of Grendelsbane. But was Grendelsbane itself ever returned or retaken?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by Dauntless   » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:13 am

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as i understand it only the habitat areas weren't nuked.

there was nothing else aside maybe from the resource extraction tech that was left for them to keep.

so i expect that once they had gotten all the shipyard workers, collected all debris that might be useful etc, they just pulled out.

nothing there worth staying for and by the same token, with the change in tactics to deep raids rather then head on collisions the need for the astrophysical location has disappeared so the manties didn't bother going back beyond checking to see what if anything the RHN left behind.
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by cthia   » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:48 am

cthia
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Dauntless wrote:as i understand it only the habitat areas weren't nuked.

there was nothing else aside maybe from the resource extraction tech that was left for them to keep.

so i expect that once they had gotten all the shipyard workers, collected all debris that might be useful etc, they just pulled out.

nothing there worth staying for and by the same token, with the change in tactics to deep raids rather then head on collisions the need for the astrophysical location has disappeared so the manties didn't bother going back beyond checking to see what if anything the RHN left behind.

So, if the RHN doesn't want it, and the RMN doesn't want it then perhaps the system has some MAlignant squatters. lol

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by drothgery   » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:02 pm

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cthia wrote:So, if the RHN doesn't want it, and the RMN doesn't want it then perhaps the system has some MAlignant squatters. lol
IIRC, the system was empty except for the fleet base (and anything else needed to support it).
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Re: Information I'd love to know
Post by HB of CJ   » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:14 pm

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I for one would believe life pods or boats would have the most capacity at the least expense. That would imply very non confortable conditions designed to maintain life but little else.

Probably air, some water but nothing else? That plus basic medical stuff. Lots of tranks? Like cattle in a corral or sardines in a tin? Very non pleasent. But they would save your life.

Very little range. Probably non quided atmosphere entry. Hopefully floatable if an ocean landing. A very basic retro rocket ability for a land landing? Cheap, reliable and expendable. Yikes!
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