Interstellar Trade

I should have also added to my previous post that some poorer planets may have rare but perfect growing climates and seasons in conjunction with soil makeup that produces even rarer, rather expensive sought after crops.

Melanogaster is a rare truffle-like fungi found in Bulgaria and Romania.

Apparently in 2005 an anonymous buyer, from Hong Kong, at a charity auction paid $112,000.00 for a 2.5 pound white truffle.

http://thelongestlistofthelongeststuffa ... ive46.html

And what about the caterpillar fungus that is more valuable than gold selling for $40,000 US dollars per kg !

https://youtu.be/FrO09pQkthQ


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Some may have you believe that the world’s most expensive mushroom is the white truffle. While that rare fungus is truly expensive, it lacks one important quality—it’s not a freakin’ mushroom. Now that we’ve cleared that up, Japan’s matsutake mushroom can take its place as the most expensive mushroom in the world.
The matsutake, or mattake, mushroom is expensive because of its rarity. While its historical prevalence meant it was nearly synonymous with autumn in Japan, the introduction of an insect that kills the trees under which the mushroom grows has caused a dramatic decrease in the number of matsutake mushrooms. A method for farming the matsutake has yet to be developed, which means the lack of trees from which to harvest these mushrooms naturally is a serious problem for the species.
The world’s most expensive mushroom can be purchased for around $1,000 per pound, though prices for specific mushrooms may reach up to $2,000 per pound. It is known more for its spiced, fruity aroma than its flavor and is a cherished gift in the Japanese corporate world.

http://most-expensive.com/mushroom

SWM wrote:Exports do not have to be unique to a planet. It could merely be cheaper, for various reasons.

A poor planet may have lower labor costs than a more cosmopolitan world. An advanced planet may have the infrastructure and advanced factories to produce high-tech goods cheaper. One planet may be able to produce certain raw goods with lower cost because of better terrain, climate, or location of needed resources. A planet that specializes in a set of products may produce them cheaper because of scaling efficiencies.

In principle, a planet could produce everything they need. But sometimes it is more cost efficient to let someone else do it. Sometimes it just isn't worth building an entire infrastructure for a product you can easily get somewhere else. Politics and diplomacy can also lead to trade to achieve domestic or foreign policies.

Of course, this only works if shipping costs are very small compared to production costs. David assures us that interstellar shipping is unbelievably cheap.

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SWM wrote:
In principle, a planet could produce everything they need. But sometimes it is more cost efficient to let someone else do it.

Sounds like the better part of America's attitude now.

There is another reason for interstellar trade NIMBY!

No-one wants a giant, ugly, poison spewing chemical plant next door and on the more developed planets next door will be pretty populated.

Given the rediculously cheep interstellar travel it's cheaper to make the product on a shithole planet and simply ship the finished product than it is to make at home and comply with all those voter enforced health and safetly and anti-polution laws. We see some of that right now with China.

Also the cost of starships is lower on a per ton basis than real life shipping costs.

Ship costs Per Wiki:
10-80 thousand tons: ~$40m
80-200 thousand tons: ~$60m
200-550 thousand tons: ~$120m

Given the numbers tossed about in Honor amongst Enemies a 8mton freighter might fetch a few hundred million dollars despite being an order of magnitude bigger. Crew sizes are about the same and so are shipping times. Finally the Manty $ is clearly about the same purchasing power as the US dollar is in the 90's/2000's given the size of the numbers thrown around in text whenever RFC mentions someone's wealth.

In fact I am farily sure than a 9 Mton invictus SD is a lot cheaper than a new 100 kton supercarrier in real terms. The unit cost of a Ford class carrier is listed as approx 10 billion USD and all the textev is that a SD is more in the 3-4 billion Manty$ range.

Admitedly most of those costs were set early on in the early 90s and the honorverse does not seem to have the compounding infaltion of the real world so they might cost 2-3 times that in the intent of RFC but they are still amazingly cheap compared to current earth.

Silverwall wrote:There is another reason for interstellar trade NIMBY!

No-one wants a giant, ugly, poison spewing chemical plant next door and on the more developed planets next door will be pretty populated.

In orbit is probably sufficiently out of the way, though.

drothgery wrote:

Silverwall wrote:There is another reason for interstellar trade NIMBY!

No-one wants a giant, ugly, poison spewing chemical plant next door and on the more developed planets next door will be pretty populated.

In orbit is probably sufficiently out of the way, though.

I just can't accept that Honorverse tech doesn't have a handle on hazardous manufacturing emissions. In the case of Grayson, that would mean that their factories are spewing even more toxic waste into the environment - which in Grayson's case is suicidal practice.

probably have fixed most hazardous by-products. either by something like the transmutation tech theorised for nuclear waste or simply by dumping it into the sun/some useless system that no-one will ever bother with as it has no habitable planets/scientific curiosities or anything else that might draw people

The problem with some processes in space is that they'll need to be carried out under pressure, but waste gasses vented to vacuum.
Think on that problem for a few minutes, add the lowish cost of transport, and it becomes easier and cheaper to do it on a low tech planet.

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One of those things that keeps striking me as odd is that Manticore set up all that extraction manufacturing and naval shipyards at Grendelsbain rather than at Maticore.

It would seem unlikely that the Manticore Binary system wasn't going to have enough material to keep building warships and had to go elsewhere for the materials AND for the actual building. Some of this was touched on in the Pearls but mostly in the direction of Hong Kong and Singapore as British Naval yards in the Far East (for both repairs and building but mostly repairs). The crux of the matter is that Manticore was, at the time it lost the facilities at Grendelsbain, a single system Star Nation even though it had the Junction to access other systems. San Martin was in Peep hands and SKM had lost the use of that terminus. Sigma Draconis was its primary connection to SL but with Beowulf (although very friendly) this was not a place to put any kind of facility. Basilisk wasn't developed much as far as any repair facilites (there were SKM political problems) and the other termini were not really described.

So why did Manticore invest and put all those people and yards out (down on the map) at Grendlesbain when the place they absoluitly had to defend and hold was the home system and that should have been (and still is) able to supply the materials for shipbuilding at the war constrruction pace for hundreds of years.
You can make the argument that it was a plot device. Grayson ending up as a building site is also somewhat a plot device BUT it is given much more supporting background and rational. The tech at Grayson had been pushed to Maticore Military levels through the alliance- to let Grayson build their own ships- but with the difference in costs (primarily labor) it was cheaper for Manticore to contract a lot of building there. On the other hand, Grayson, by that time, had it's own Home Fleet and a massive amount of system protection. Manticore was also adding Grayson type distributed yards for the construction. I don't recall any economic justification for Grendelsbane. At best it a system with no habitable planet but nothing is mentioned- that I recall- about labor costs or tax breakes for building ships there, just there was gobs of materials.

In the Pearls it does mention that a very satisfactory alternative to placing all that building (with the exposure that caused it's loss) at Grendlesbain would to have been just to put mineing and extraction there and ship all the materials in bulk to Manticore and build everything in the home system----where you are going to have to maintain your major defences in and case. Just doing basic mining and bulk extraction with all the materials being packed into large transports and shipped right back to Manticore lowers the exposure drasticly, keeps all that trained and experienced construction and manufacturing staff at home, and still provides the materials you need.
It seems to me that having to transport all that staff to a place like Grendelsbain and maintain it doesn't lend itself to lower wage and logistics costs since you are having to hire mostly Manticorian citizens and ship them out (and eventualy back) is going to cost you with the probable extra pay for the long distance posting.

We do have the example of Technodyne for which the home location is in a system with no habitable planet. On the other hand, nobody is looking to attack the Technodyne system and has had an ongoing SLN presence beyond it's local SDF (which is not actualy talked about, only presumed as a private, corporate navy of some size).

Brigade XO wrote:One of those things that keeps striking me as odd is that Manticore set up all that extraction manufacturing and naval shipyards at Grendelsbain rather than at Maticore.

Grendelsbane developed as a fleet base for that flank of the war against Haven. Initially - for the whole first war, really, on Manticore's side - there was still the strategic paradigm of the steady, step-by-step advance and attrition of the enemy forces along the way. They needed a fleet base down there - which developed into a place for repairs - which developed into a satellite yard.... It just grew out of control, not according to any plan, on the basis of dominant strategic thinking, location, and circumstance.

The burned hand teaches best, and Manticore is likelier to stick to plans in the future, with regard to satellite facilities and the defense of military shipyards both. The RMN has done a great job, but they really have suffered from having to make some stuff up as they go along and frequently excessive conservatism in doctrine and design.

Brigade XO wrote:One of those things that keeps striking me as odd is that Manticore set up all that extraction manufacturing and naval shipyards at Grendelsbain rather than at Maticore.
..snip..

Grendelsbane started out as an RMN Fleet base, having to rely on interstellar trade/freight for raw-materials means that you will need escorts which then makes it cheaper (and safer) to have local resource extraction in place. So it's not that odd.