DDHvi wrote:Shifts by how much? If there are any other lines surviving, there couldn't be one "mitochondrial Eve" but two or more.
And you´re still not reading it right, and i´m pretty useless at explaining this, so reread and think about what it says, not what you want it to say.
Simple truth that the research tells you if you listen, there is no "Eve" in the
biblical sense.
If you could trace DNA from either mother or father, and you start from the same time as the stated mitochondrial Eve, you might find that the number of females from that time which has descendants now could be anything from 2 to thousands. They have just never had a SINGLE UNBROKEN line of mother to daughter all the way.
Same goes for the Y-DNA tracing.
And based on that and other stuff, we certainly NEVER had any single first mother or father responsible on their own for all humans.
In fact, if we ever did have that, then the mitochondrial Eve would NOT shift at all, ever.
But it does. Which means a biblical Eve is completely impossible.
Not a question of maybe or interpretation, but a matter of "can´t exist".
DDHvi wrote:You obviously know more than I do about alphabetical languages.
Considering how much time i´ve spent with linguistics, including some historical linguistics at a museum, i most certainly hope so!
Sure it´s mostly not directly relating to this, but it does help me find the stuff online that i need to make a good argument.
DDHvi wrote:BTW. I suspect the primary reason Chinese are still using hieroglyphs is the lack of one major spoken language. Since most people would need to learn another language anyway, it makes sense to have a special written language. Of course there is also the factor of tradition
Ouch, don´t let any Chinese hear you call their traditional writing hieroglyphs! They´re logograms, while hieroglyphs are a combination of alphabet and logograms, so the two are not even the same thing in a technical sense.
And you might want to look at how Japanese kanji is essentially Chinese script borrowed with some modifications despite Japan using ONE single language.
Except of course they´re crazy enough to ALSO use katakana and hiragana, both of which have over twice as many characters as the latin alphabet. (and i really, REALLY hate that!)
Meanwhile, you might want to look up Pinyin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PinyinUsed increasingly in China since the 50s.
DDHvi wrote:People keep saying this, but so far, I've not found anyone who can point me to objective evidence in detail enough to test. Without a good test, why should I change my thinking?
There is a great deal of difference between belief and actual indications of veracity.
There is absolutely nothing showing that the writings about the norse pantheon is in any way wrong, and in fact most of the writings that exist are not even religious in nature, making them clearly less likely to be "fixed".
Ergo, by your own logic, why should you not then accept that Odin is lord of heaven?
You have the same supporting evidence of truth, but almost no evidence in opposition to it(which isn´t true for the bible).
Anyways, lets see...
Right, two important stories, the Babylonian captivity and the exodus.
First one, no historical findings contradict it, and a few archaeological findings clearly support it to at least some degree. Details may not be correct, but something like it very likely did happen.
The exodus however? There may or may not be some kind of "exodus" SOMEWHERE, SOMETIME in history that inspired the story, but it certainly didn´t happen when, how and where the bible claims.
For a simplified list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus#HistoricityBasically:
>>>A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has found no evidence which can be directly related to the Exodus captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness,[5] and most archaeologists have abandoned the archaeological investigation of Moses and the Exodus as "a fruitless pursuit".<<<
>>>The 600,000, plus wives, children, the elderly, and the "mixed multitude" of non-Israelites would have numbered some 2 million people,[18] compared with an entire Egyptian population in 1250 BCE of around 3 to 3.5 million.[19] Marching ten abreast, and without accounting for livestock, they would have formed a line 150 miles long.[20] No evidence has been found that indicates Egypt ever suffered such a demographic and economic catastrophe or that the Sinai desert ever hosted (or could have hosted) these millions of people and their herds.<<<
Meanwhile, the most likely events actually mentioned in history, and known to have been real, that MIGHT correlate to the writings about the exodus?
Well, then the bible is really dreadful with the truth, as the Hyksos people
invaded Egypt, created their own kingdom there, eventually starting another war and killing off the two nearby Egyptian rulers and taking over the lower Nile region and becoming the 15th Egyptian dynasty(until getting thrown out by pharaoh Ahmose Ist(interesting name in this context isn´t it?)), bringing with them their primary deity Baal the stormgod, which in early jewish scriptures is sometimes used as we might say "The Lord" in reference to the christian god.
Around 1800BC to 1550BC. They´re a halfdecent match with the claimed exodus, but the people running are certainly not enslaved, they´re the ousted FOREIGN RULERS of a land whose population they opressed for a couple of centuries.
Not quite according to biblical accounts is it?
That´s one example. There´s bundles of them in the bible.
I´ll be very simple and just:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Biblehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_the_BibleGenesis was disproven as a literal depiction by the 19th century.
>>>The birth of geology was marked by the publication of James Hutton's Theory of the Earth in 1788. This marked the intellectual revolution that would dethrone Genesis as the ultimate authority on primeval earth and prehistory. The first casualty was the Creation story itself, and by the early 19th century "no responsible scientist contended for the literal credibility of the Mosaic account of creation."<<<
Authorship claims were disproven by the 17th century at least.
>>>A central pillar of the Bible's historical authority was the tradition that it had been composed by the principal actors or eyewitnesses to the events described – the Pentateuch was the work of Moses, Joshua was by Joshua, and so on. But the Protestant Reformation had brought the actual texts to a much wider audience, which combined with the growing climate of intellectual ferment in the 17th century that was the start of the Age of Enlightenment threw a harsh sceptical spotlight on these traditional claims. In Protestant England the philosopher Thomas Hobbes in his major work Leviathan (1651) denied Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch, and identified Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings and Chronicles as having been written long after the events they purported to describe. His conclusions rested on internal textual evidence, but in an argument that resonates with modern debates, he noted: "Who were the original writers of the several Books of Holy Scripture, has not been made evident by any sufficient testimony of other History, (which is the only proof of matter of fact)."<<<
And pretty much just american zealots continue to claim things already disproven.
>>>In the United States the biblical archaeology movement, under the influence of Albright, counter-attacked, arguing that the broad outline within the framing narratives was also true, so that while scholars could not realistically expect to prove or disprove individual episodes from the life of Abraham and the other patriarchs, these were real individuals who could be placed in a context proven from the archaeological record. But as more discoveries were made, and anticipated finds failed to materialise, it became apparent that archaeology did not in fact support the claims made by Albright and his followers. Today, only a minority of scholars continue to work within this framework, mainly for reasons of religious conviction.<<<
WHY should you change your thinking? Because thinking people have disproven the bible for hundreds of years by now. It´s pretty much only in USA that so many still persists in claiming it to have such a high veracity.
Heck, even the Vatican is far more cautious!
DDHvi wrote:For personal objective evidence, my mother told how she was healed as a youngster; my father was healed in his old age of artheritis (personal experience, not hearsay. When prepping for the meeting, Mom had to dress him while he held still, afterward, no problem at all); someone who worked with me at a factory had a child healed; our superintendent had cancer with an expectation that chemo would reduce the size by 40% to allow easy operation, size was reduced by 90% and the lab said the tumor cells were dead. For changed lives, look at John Newton, Nicky Cruz, many others. It is amazing how many coincidences happen when we pray.
That is not proof of anything. Well, except for showing that you do not know what evidence is.
Your above stories are commonly sorted under the category of "placebo".
You can pray to the great spaghetti monster or the moon rabbit, as long as you believe it will help, it might.
And "sugarpill" treatment tend to get similar results. If there is a GOD, do you really want him/her/it compared as equal to sugarpills?
