Total $Tax Rates$ In The Honorverse? ...

I rather suspect that how well various systems get by will depend on how well off they are to start with.

A system with a well developed economy will issue it's own currency readily enough. The value of currency finally depends on the economic activity backing it In terms of products manufactured and services rendered.

The systems that would get hurt would be the ones heavily dependent on trade for survival and who are running a trade deficit. The problem here would be that they are not generating enough economic value to sustain a currency.

Problems with inflation will be primarily in the verge and the shell.

Don

Is the Manticoran credit most likely the strongest currency in the Honorverse? And what is it backed by? The lucrative transit system?

By comparison, the strongest currency on Earth currently, backed by the fifth largest oil reserve in the world is the Kuwaiti dinar. In relation to U.S. dollars, 1 Kuwaiti equals $2.847.

I expect the Manticore credit's future has been too uncertain since the war started. Neither the Peeps nor the Sollies would accept Manticore dollars after they'd won, I'd bet. And since they've been buying bonds like crazy, there's going to be a lot of them floating about. Historically, I imagine it was quite strong due to the Junction. Any interstellar trader would have to pay the Manties eventually, if they weren't Manties themselves.

At present, I don't which currency would be strongest, aside from the Solarian credit. That currency is backed by an economy of yes and way too big to fail. Until recently, anyways.

cthia wrote:Is the Manticoran credit most likely the strongest currency in the Honorverse? And what is it backed by? The lucrative transit system?

Manticoran Dollar. Solarian Credit.

drothgery wrote:

cthia wrote:Is the Manticoran credit most likely the strongest currency in the Honorverse? And what is it backed by? The lucrative transit system?

Manticoran Dollar. Solarian Credit.

Thanks for the correction drothgery. I'll be sure to have my Solly credits converted to dollars before leaving Old Earth.

Interesting though. How did the main currency of Earth, dollar, become the credit? It implies Old Earth's adoption of a world currency based on the European currency. (My guess) There are the highly preferred credit Suisse gold bullion already. But then, the Manticoran adoption of the dollar implies that perhaps the embracing of a world currency happened post diaspora and Manticore was just continuing what it left behind. Perhaps?

cthia wrote:Is the Manticoran credit most likely the strongest currency in the Honorverse? And what is it backed by? The lucrative transit system?

Manticore has no economy right now. Their exports are roughly zero, their imports have gone up astronomically, most of their merchant shipping is facing chapter 7 and a huge proportion of the population would be unemployed. (Like the "cough" 300 million asteroid miners who supply the manufacturing that doesn't exist).

They have lost at least several years worth of GSP of infrastructure and expertise and are going to be paying through the nose to replace it, presumably with long-term bonds as it such an astronomical amount of money that nobody can afford to donate it to you. (Beowulf's government, much as they might like Manticore, would be lynched if they tried to have every citizen of Beowulf contribute a million Manticoran dollars to fund the reconstruction.)

And who are the buyers? They have prevented most of the universe from buying it, so who has a few hundred trillion Manticoran dollars on hand? Haven? I don't think so, as they are barely holding on. just recovered from a huge civil war and have multiple planetary systems ravaged. The Andies?

noblehunter wrote:I expect the Manticore credit's future has been too uncertain since the war started. Neither the Peeps nor the Sollies would accept Manticore dollars after they'd won, I'd bet. And since they've been buying bonds like crazy, there's going to be a lot of them floating about. Historically, I imagine it was quite strong due to the Junction. Any interstellar trader would have to pay the Manties eventually, if they weren't Manties themselves.

At present, I don't which currency would be strongest, aside from the Solarian credit. That currency is backed by an economy of yes and way too big to fail. Until recently, anyways.

I think it may also depend on just where - and who - is doing the valuation.

For example, I strongly suspect that the Manticoran dollar has held fairly stable in places like the Anderman Empire, probably also Erewhon, throughout most of the wars with Haven and is still doing well now. Places where Manticoran ties and influences are reasonably strong, and much stronger than those with the League, especially if those places have been paying attention over the past few decades.
Admittedly, right after Thunderbolt, the Manticoran dollar probably took a nosedive, but also recovered reasonably well prior to Operation Beatrice. After all, the Andies stayed out as long as they did because they believed Manticore could and would stop Haven without them, and they know just how gamechanging the Manticoran tech advances have been, and how far behind the SLN is.

After Oyster Bay, though ... that probably did a number on the Manticoran Dollar. To what extent will likely vary based on where and who you ask.

cthia wrote:Interesting though. How did the main currency of Earth, dollar, become the credit? It implies Old Earth's adoption of a world currency based on the European currency.

There is two thousand years of history between the modern era and the Honorverse era. It would be extremely surprising if the Honorverse era currency had anything to do with the modern currency. I myself would find that impossible to believe, especially after the Final War wiped out all of the existing nations of Earth.

.

kzt wrote:Manticore has no economy right now. Their exports are roughly zero, their imports have gone up astronomically, most of their merchant shipping is facing chapter 7 and a huge proportion of the population would be unemployed. (Like the "cough" 300 million asteroid miners who supply the manufacturing that doesn't exist).

They have lost at least several years worth of GSP of infrastructure and expertise and are going to be paying through the nose to replace it, presumably with long-term bonds as it such an astronomical amount of money that nobody can afford to donate it to you. (Beowulf's government, much as they might like Manticore, would be lynched if they tried to have every citizen of Beowulf contribute a million Manticoran dollars to fund the reconstruction.)

And who are the buyers? They have prevented most of the universe from buying it, so who has a few hundred trillion Manticoran dollars on hand? Haven? I don't think so, as they are barely holding on. just recovered from a huge civil war and have multiple planetary systems ravaged. The Andies?

The Manticore economy isn't as bad as that. The asteroid miners are going to be running full out to supply the materials for the re-building effort. And there'll be plenty of shipping to send material to anywhere in non-Solly space if not. Those imports will also give some of the newly available merchies something to haul as well. Then there's all the new trade with Haven.

I don't think it's a question of who has trillions of Manticoran dollars, it's who'd want them (I'm assuming the Honorverse runs on pure fiat currencies and that they've solved the major pitfalls with them). Talbott, Lynx, and Silesia should have a huge appetite for Manticoran-denomitated capital. If money works the way I think it does, they could print money hand over fist for a while before worrying about inflation because there's so much potential for new production. There's just so much more economy to invest it in.

I don't think selling bonds would be a problem to people who understand the challenges facing the Solarian League (espeically short term notes). While us readers certainly know more, in-universe investor could easily be aware that the Sollies are ill-equipped to keep the League in one piece if there's any serious separatist feeling.

Kytheros wrote:I think it may also depend on just where - and who - is doing the valuation.

For example, I strongly suspect that the Manticoran dollar has held fairly stable in places like the Anderman Empire, probably also Erewhon, throughout most of the wars with Haven and is still doing well now. Places where Manticoran ties and influences are reasonably strong, and much stronger than those with the League, especially if those places have been paying attention over the past few decades.
Admittedly, right after Thunderbolt, the Manticoran dollar probably took a nosedive, but also recovered reasonably well prior to Operation Beatrice. After all, the Andies stayed out as long as they did because they believed Manticore could and would stop Haven without them, and they know just how gamechanging the Manticoran tech advances have been, and how far behind the SLN is.

After Oyster Bay, though ... that probably did a number on the Manticoran Dollar. To what extent will likely vary based on where and who you ask.

I think Raging Justice would have done a lot to reassure people about the confidence in the Manticoran Dollar.

http://forums.davidweber.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1950 is rfc's thoughts on how currency works in the Honorverse.

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:Interesting though. How did the main currency of Earth, dollar, become the credit? It implies Old Earth's adoption of a world currency based on the European currency.

There is two thousand years of history between the modern era and the Honorverse era. It would be extremely surprising if the Honorverse era currency had anything to do with the modern currency. I myself would find that impossible to believe, especially after the Final War wiped out all of the existing nations of Earth.

I didn't mean to imply that the currencies had anything to do with each other in value, but in name. Just as English survived the purge of the final wars as the de facto language via attrition, so too did the language's objects. I surmise that the colony of Manticore took with it the nomenclature of "dollar" to the Haven sector. Why not?

"What shall we call our currency?"

"Let's just stick with "dollar."