HFQ Official Snippet #28

lyonheart wrote:
[snip]

Secondly, I suspect the inner circle, particularly Cayleb was getting antsy about how tall all the reported seijins were.

[snip]

I think this is a very good point indeed, and could contain a time bomb. We've got at least two tall seijins in the shape of Merlin, and Ahbraim. Now we have a much shorter seijin in the form of Nimue. If the personas multiply further, the penny is going to drop that there's a bunch of tall seijins at 6+ ft, a bunch of short seijins at about 5 ft 4 ins (IIRC), and nothing in the middle. And if that penny drops in too many of the wrong places, people are going to talk! One of the corollaries of Murphy's Law, is The Law of Selective Gravitation, which states that a dropped brick always falls where it will do most damage . . .

For those of you wishing to know more about raising and training horse cavalry I would like to suggest Stephen Z. Starr's three volume history The Union Cavalry in the Civil War. They are available on Amazon in paperback for about roughly about $25.00 U.S. each. (Free ad for Amazon since I don't work for them. They are just a pusher for the words I like to read from authors like MWW/RFC.) I picked my hard cover editions at the Petersburg and Appomattax Court House National Park visiter's centers in the late 1980s.

One of the things that Starr brings out in his history is that Union cavalry troopers were largely from the cities while Confederate cavalry troopers were largely from rural areas. Union rural soldiers knew that taking care of a horse was a lot of trouble and thus largely enlisted in the infantry. That meant the Union troopers first had to learn to stay on their hay burners before they could learn to fight from them. Indeed with the improved firearms available to Union troopers (many of which were purchased by those same troopers) most Union troopers fought as mounted infantry.

A second thing that Starr brings out is the incredible death rates for horses in military service in the Union Army during the American Civil War. A similar story can be found in the various histories of the Napoleonic Wars in Europe were on many battlefields sizeable numbers of "cavalry" were in fact fighting dismounted. Remount depots were very important to keeping Union armies supplied with all the horses (and mules, oxen, etc.) needed to keep moving away from the various railheads.

Hope this helps in some small fashion.

Peter2 wrote:

lyonheart wrote:
[snip]

Secondly, I suspect the inner circle, particularly Cayleb was getting antsy about how tall all the reported seijins were.

[snip]

I think this is a very good point indeed, and could contain a time bomb. We've got at least two tall seijins in the shape of Merlin, and Ahbraim. Now we have a much shorter seijin in the form of Nimue. If the personas multiply further, the penny is going to drop that there's a bunch of tall seijins at 6+ ft, a bunch of short seijins at about 5 ft 4 ins (IIRC), and nothing in the middle. And if that penny drops in too many of the wrong places, people are going to talk! One of the corollaries of Murphy's Law, is The Law of Selective Gravitation, which states that a dropped brick always falls where it will do most damage . . .

In fact very few people, outside the inner circle, ever meet more than one of each kind of Seijin, or even more than one Seijin, and even fewer of those have photographic memories. The people who do meet the various Seijins tend to be in very far scattered parts of Safehold in battle or emergency conditions, and have no opportunity to compare notes with each other. Given that, I think 'the penny dropping' is so unlikely it's not worth even thinking about. The whole thing about Ninian working it out was written in a way which emphasised how unusual her abilities were.

Hi Don,

Pardon me, but you're making the same false assumption PeterZ did.

That is, most of the Regency Council doesn't know how much advice Merlin gives, or that he gives any at all, which isn't surprising since the rest haven't met him in the first place, unless it was while signing the surrender treaty.

Anvil Rock and Tartarian have recognised his critical role, but there's no indication they've shared that insight with the whole council, nor any indication they need or intend to.

Thus your problem is we have no textev that the Regency and Council Royal etc are paying any attention at all to Seijin Nimue [who probably stands outside the council room, not inside]; nor do we have any textev that Nimue is providing or even interested in providing said insights, so your concern is rather moot.

Nimue may be in the process of quietly changing that, as she has changed the impression women are helpless, but its going to take much longer with all those who didn't witness her demolishing of Lt. Sheltyn, or visit him in the hospital.

Again, since Nimue is there in Manchyr during the day, because she doesn't need any sleep, she is quite able to share any of her 'insights' into the belated information the regency council receives and acts upon that doesn't go where inner circle [including Irys and Hektor] thinks it should to help shift it in the right direction, probably by going through General Gahrvai.

Remember Corisande is rather far from the critical action, and until the Go4 cobble a fleet together that can threaten the EoC closer to home [odds nil], they will remain a backwater news-wise, for which I hope they feel ample gratitude for their fortunate state.

So it isn't critical for Nimue to attend the council meetings inside yet, and probably not for some time to come.

L

n7axw wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Don,

On the contrary Irys and Hektor can have OWL do what Merlin did in an emergency in passing messages to Gahrvai, and if necessary I suspect the SNARC sensors can kill or injure any assassins etc they find in extremis and then arrange more plausible causes [obvious evidence] of death or accidental injury afterward.

You [NTM Irys, Hektor and Nimue] could have a lot of fun with all sorts of embarrassing or humorous accidents that leave assassins easy captures, broken or twisted ankles, feet, fingers, or arbalest bolts etc from unseen seijins keeping watch.

Imagine how if necessary, the news that Corisande is being watched over by its own network of secret seijins or their friends will help secure the public to the empire.

Strategically, having Nimue at Manchyr [13+ hours ahead or behind east Haven] means she's able to visit east Haven as needed while Merlin is obviously publicly elsewhere is probably helping Cayleb, Sharleyan and the rest of the inner circle sleep better after Nynian saw through his attempted disguises so easily.

L

Hi Lyonheart,

Yes, there is Owl. But that's not quite the same as having your very own Seijin on the spot to advise and help interpret the info. As optimistic as I've become about Corisande, it remains the only province in the Empire that was compelled to join by force of arms. That is bound to rankle for a while even though things seem to be going well at the moment.

I wholeheartedly agree that having Nimue aboard helping with the special ops and visits to the field is going to be a real asset as the story plays out on the mainland for exactly the reasons you mention.

Don

Hi USMA74,

Thank you for explaining some of the differences between the confederate and union cavalry, and a 3 volume resource I look forward to since I was named after Phil Sheridan.

The German army in WWII used more horses than it did in WWI, and despite all the propaganda about its motorized units, 75% of the entire army were still dependent upon draft horses even in the last year of the war, until the great horse farms of eastern Prussia were lost [ending the supply at the source], at which point it was up to their LPC's [ie boots].

Their vast losses naturally dwarf those of the union army.

I think your salient point is that training cavalry or dragoons is no quick and easily learned skill, it will take many month's if not a year or two to be more than merely or barely adequate; ie undone by some unknown surprise they were untrained and unprepared for; which the union troopers didn't generally attain until the third or fourth year of the war.

Thanks again for the book reference!

L

USMA74 wrote:For those of you wishing to know more about raising and training horse cavalry I would like to suggest Stephen Z. Starr's three volume history The Union Cavalry in the Civil War. They are available on Amazon in paperback for about roughly about $25.00 U.S. each. (Free ad for Amazon since I don't work for them. They are just a pusher for the words I like to read from authors like MWW/RFC.) I picked my hard cover editions at the Petersburg and Appomattax Court House National Park visiter's centers in the late 1980s.

One of the things that Starr brings out in his history is that Union cavalry troopers were largely from the cities while Confederate cavalry troopers were largely from rural areas. Union rural soldiers knew that taking care of a horse was a lot of trouble and thus largely enlisted in the infantry. That meant the Union troopers first had to learn to stay on their hay burners before they could learn to fight from them. Indeed with the improved firearms available to Union troopers (many of which were purchased by those same troopers) most Union troopers fought as mounted infantry.

A second thing that Starr brings out is the incredible death rates for horses in military service in the Union Army during the American Civil War. A similar story can be found in the various histories of the Napoleonic Wars in Europe were on many battlefields sizeable numbers of "cavalry" were in fact fighting dismounted. Remount depots were very important to keeping Union armies supplied with all the horses (and mules, oxen, etc.) needed to keep moving away from the various railheads.

Hope this helps in some small fashion.

Hi Randomiser,

Kudos for the excellent points!

Thanks for making my own thoughts so well first.

Please enjoy another round of your favorite simulated beverage at the forum on me.

All the very best,

L

Randomiser wrote:

Peter2 wrote:*quote="lyonheart"*

[snip]

Secondly, I suspect the inner circle, particularly Cayleb was getting antsy about how tall all the reported seijins were.

[snip]


*quote*

I think this is a very good point indeed, and could contain a time bomb. We've got at least two tall seijins in the shape of Merlin, and Ahbraim. Now we have a much shorter seijin in the form of Nimue. If the personas multiply further, the penny is going to drop that there's a bunch of tall seijins at 6+ ft, a bunch of short seijins at about 5 ft 4 ins (IIRC), and nothing in the middle. And if that penny drops in too many of the wrong places, people are going to talk! One of the corollaries of Murphy's Law, is The Law of Selective Gravitation, which states that a dropped brick always falls where it will do most damage . . .

In fact very few people, outside the inner circle, ever meet more than one of each kind of Seijin, or even more than one Seijin, and even fewer of those have photographic memories. The people who do meet the various Seijins tend to be in very far scattered parts of Safehold in battle or emergency conditions, and have no opportunity to compare notes with each other. Given that, I think 'the penny dropping' is so unlikely it's not worth even thinking about. The whole thing about Ninian working it out was written in a way which emphasised how unusual her abilities were.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Don,

Pardon me, but you're making the same false assumption PeterZ did.

That is, most of the Regency Council doesn't know how much advice Merlin gives, or that he gives any at all, which isn't surprising since the rest haven't met him in the first place, unless it was while signing the surrender treaty.

Anvil Rock and Tartarian have recognised his critical role, but there's no indication they've shared that insight with the whole council, nor any indication they need or intend to.

Thus your problem is we have no textev that the Regency and Council Royal etc are paying any attention at all to Seijin Nimue [who probably stands outside the council room, not inside]; nor do we have any textev that Nimue is providing or even interested in providing said insights, so your concern is rather moot.

Nimue may be in the process of quietly changing that, as she has changed the impression women are helpless, but its going to take much longer with all those who didn't witness her demolishing of Lt. Sheltyn, or visit him in the hospital.

Again, since Nimue is there in Manchyr during the day, because she doesn't need any sleep, she is quite able to share any of her 'insights' into the belated information the regency council receives and acts upon that doesn't go where inner circle [including Irys and Hektor] thinks it should to help shift it in the right direction, probably by going through General Gahrvai.

Remember Corisande is rather far from the critical action, and until the Go4 cobble a fleet together that can threaten the EoC closer to home [odds nil], they will remain a backwater news-wise, for which I hope they feel ample gratitude for their fortunate state.

So it isn't critical for Nimue to attend the council meetings inside yet, and probably not for some time to come.

L

Hi Lyonheart,

Eh??? I certainly didn't mean that Nimue should become a policy advisor to the regency council, although Merlin and Cayleb certainly talk things through...

I would imagine that she could come to serve a similar role for Daivyn once he assumes the full responsibility as Prince of Corisande.

But what I was really talking about for the here and now was assisting Gahrvai, Anvil Rock and Tartian in interpreting snarc data that might come up that could reveal security threats. It's not hard to visualize her involved in such discussions and offer ideas about how to respond. It could all be very informal and also very helpful.

The point is that although Corisande has moved in a very positive direction, the conquest is still recent enough that it is probably too soon to report that the sour taste left by that is gone. The very wise policies adopted by the imperial crown are helping, as are very successful visits by Sharleyan and Archbishop Mikael. But Corisande will only be completely out of the woods once she sees and accepts that her participation in the Empire is as a full partner, not just a conquered province. At the moment, however, the potential for unrest remains.

Now about Nimue... As you undoubtedly recall, her PICA was created in the aftermath of that rakurai strike on Irys and Hektor on their wedding day. The immediate object of her mission was to keep Daivyn and Irys alive. Doing that involves integrating her into palace security AND establishing those relationships upon which she will need to rely to assist in carrying out her mission.

To conclude, I suspect that Manchyr will continue to be Nimue's "home base." That certainly does not preclude her participation in some covert ops or the sort of errand running we saw with her visit to Sympkyn in that last snippet.

Don

n7axw wrote:I would imagine that she could come to serve a similar role for Daivyn once he assumes the full responsibility as Prince of Corisande.

But what I was really talking about for the here and now was assisting Gahrvai, Anvil Rock and Tartian in interpreting snarc data that might come up that could reveal security threats. It's not hard to visualize her involved in such discussions and offer ideas about how to respond. It could all be very informal and also very helpful.

For that matter - Gahrvai knows she's a seijin. He knows seijin can provide him with intel of utter reliability and spooky origins. He knows seijins can do things those not touched by Archangels cannot. So - standing outside the door, she can probably hear the whole meeting anyway, and he can certainly arrange to get her perspective and intel straight from the seijin's mouth.

No, there's no textev for it yet, but it's entirely plausible. Heck, it's doubtful that he's not doing so.

The point is that although Corisande has moved in a very positive direction, the conquest is still recent enough that it is probably too soon to report that the sour taste left by that is gone. The very wise policies adopted by the imperial crown are helping, as are very successful visits by Sharleyan and Archbishop Mikael. But Corisande will only be completely out of the woods once she sees and accepts that her participation in the Empire is as a full partner, not just a conquered province. At the moment, however, the potential for unrest remains.

One thing I'm looking forward to in that regard is Irys getting publicly and strongly behind Corisandian innovations and their own Royal College. She's a convert to the thrill of science and that needs unleashing in Corisande, claiming by Corisande as something they embrace and will be pushing as much as their (now, please, friendly!) national rivals in Charis. It was something even her father would have wanted, if he hadn't had to play the part of the Temple's orthodox island son, so it'd be symbolic of Corisandian national pride but simultaneously of her liberation from the Temple. And for added value, it's an endeavor that women can participate in without lower average upper-body strength or height making a lick of difference.

True and a well taken point, but it's early days and there have been only a few chances for sightings of seijins on field operations.

Expert snuggler wrote:True and a well taken point, but it's early days and there have been only a few chances for sightings of seijins on field operations.

What I think would be fun would be a field op that would be coordinated between Nimue and Nynian's people...something covert with a bit of razzle dazzle that would leave Clyntahn breaking up furniture!

Don