GA tactics

Indeed, but do not forget that he did it in order to prevent Yucel from ordering the massacre of thousands of innocent people taken into custody by Yucel and her troops. By her own words, she was going to do it.

The actions of Terekhov were not made in order to eradicate all the government of the planet and their families, but it was intended to prevent the imminent execution of thousands of civilians, executions that he was quite sure would happen soon (by Yucel own words, and by the fact that the planet showed multiple signs of massive exactions against civilians).

There is still quite a difference between that and executing a (more or less) democratic government in a core world who is not busy slaughtering it's own citizens...

OlorinNight wrote:There is still quite a difference between that and executing a (more or less) democratic government in a core world who is not busy slaughtering it's own citizens...

To the Mandarin's spin doctors, there isn't any sort of distinction at all. That Terekhov was also decorated by Manticore for the unprovoked attack on the Monica system just proves how dangerous the rogue regime of the self-styled "Empire."

It is a good thing that the GA has the inside track on information to all but a couple hundred systems of the SL. They can get their version of events into circulation faster and wider than the Mandarins spin doctors.

Weird Harold wrote:

OlorinNight wrote:There is still quite a difference between that and executing a (more or less) democratic government in a core world who is not busy slaughtering it's own citizens...

To the Mandarin's spin doctors, there isn't any sort of distinction at all. That Terekhov was also decorated by Manticore for the unprovoked attack on the Monica system just proves how dangerous the rogue regime of the self-styled "Empire."

It is a good thing that the GA has the inside track on information to all but a couple hundred systems of the SL. They can get their version of events into circulation faster and wider than the Mandarins spin doctors.

Well, yes, but that's propaganda from the mandarin, and not tactics for the GA (the original focus of the thread). And anyway, the mandarin do not need that if they want to make some anti-GA propaganda, they could just make things up. If it has even a small and far reaching contact with something that may Under unfavorable conditions look like it could be linked to reality, it's better. But it's not needed.

And while it may work with a low level planet into some bacward part of the protectorate, I'm not sure it would be that succesful (at least on the long term) when you start lying about what happened on the planet next door...

OlorinNight wrote:Well, yes, but that's propaganda from the mandarin, and not tactics for the GA (the original focus of the thread). And anyway, the mandarin do not need that if they want to make some anti-GA propaganda, they could just make things up. ...

The GA has to take into account the propaganda value of any action -- both what the GA can spin out of an action and how the Mandarins will be able to spin it.

"Just making things up" is to be expected, but a "Big Lie" with an element of truth mixed in works far better than lies from whole cloth.

That's why it is so fortunate that the GA is inside of the League's "news loop;" the events in Mobius will be well reported and spin established long before the Mandarins learn anything about it.

Weird Harold wrote:

OlorinNight wrote:Well, yes, but that's propaganda from the mandarin, and not tactics for the GA (the original focus of the thread). And anyway, the mandarin do not need that if they want to make some anti-GA propaganda, they could just make things up. ...

The GA has to take into account the propaganda value of any action -- both what the GA can spin out of an action and how the Mandarins will be able to spin it.

"Just making things up" is to be expected, but a "Big Lie" with an element of truth mixed in works far better than lies from whole cloth.

Indeed, and that's why a plan where you destroy space instalaltion while limiting as much as possible civilians casualties, and especially while you do not take control of sytems or try to overthrow their government is going to make it harder for the Mandarin to present as they whish it.

That's why it is so fortunate that the GA is inside of the League's "news loop;" the events in Mobius will be well reported and spin established long before the Mandarins learn anything about it.

Let's not forget that, for now at least, the GA still guarantees access to the SL news, even through their own terminus and junction

OlorinNight wrote:

Encourage systems that are economically, militarily and politically influential to cede from the League, systems that are already inclined to do so anyway would provide new trading partners to assist Manticore's economic recovery, take away resources from the League and potentially bring allies in to the GA.

That's all very good, but how do you plan to DO it, how do you convince those systems to switch sides without putting pressure on them.
Note that my proposition is leaning into that direction, but with a proposition on how to put enough pressure on some of those systems to convience them to switch sides.

At the moment, most, if not all core systems cannot even imagine that the SL may lose this war. So why should they switch sides to be on the loser side? No, you need to convince them first that victory may not be as sure as it seemed firstly, and that the cost of remaining in the war may be way more than what they are willing to pay.

I don't know. So far the League Government has picked 2, arguable 3 fights with Manticore and lost big each time.

Now the League government is going to be scrambling to raise funds (and hence putting pressure on member governments to help with that).


I'd start by sending a diplomatic message to various core governments portraying this war an an unprovoked vendetta on behalf of the Mandarins. And one that Manticore would be happy to leave you out of if you'd just agree not to assist this illegal undeclared war of aggression against them.
Also, if they'd be interested in resuming trade we do have these idled freighters that would love to get back to work. And if you hint you have security concerns we might be able work something out.

IOW let the League government be the one to apply the pressure, at least in the short term. Manticore is the one offering an out from the pressure.


Now if a system actively participates in future attacks against Manticoran interesting (I don't know, sends their SDF out raiding, hosts a FF base used to mount attacks) then Manticore counter-attacks and shows why they're a bad enemy to provoke.


You can't do this indefinitely, because it gives initiative and time to the League. But in the short term acting reasonable and restrained despite repeated (unprovoked) attacks seems like a good diplomatic ploy.

Jonathan_S wrote:I don't know. So far the League Government has picked 2, arguable 3 fights with Manticore and lost big each time.

Now the League government is going to be scrambling to raise funds (and hence putting pressure on member governments to help with that).

I'd start by sending a diplomatic message to various core governments portraying this war an an unprovoked vendetta on behalf of the Mandarins. And one that Manticore would be happy to leave you out of if you'd just agree not to assist this illegal undeclared war of aggression against them.

Also, if they'd be interested in resuming trade we do have these idled freighters that would love to get back to work. And if you hint you have security concerns we might be able work something out.

IOW let the League government be the one to apply the pressure, at least in the short term. Manticore is the one offering an out from the pressure.

Now if a system actively participates in future attacks against Manticoran interesting (I don't know, sends their SDF out raiding, hosts a FF base used to mount attacks) then Manticore counter-attacks and shows why they're a bad enemy to provoke.

You can't do this indefinitely, because it gives initiative and time to the League. But in the short term acting reasonable and restrained despite repeated (unprovoked) attacks seems like a good diplomatic ploy.

I agree with most of what you said, Jonathan, but I think you add to the pressure by hitting Solarian League targets in their systems, while leaving alone the resources that belong to the system.

For an example, the Core World Pittsburg has a large SLN manufacturing base for BC's. There is a Squadron of SLN SD's defending it, and Pittsburg's SDF amounts to a couple of 50-year old CA's and a half-dozen older DD's.
And suddenly a Squadron of Havenite SD's, with a half-squadron of Grayson CLACs and 6 Sag-B's come hypering in.

The Commander of the GA force then makes the following speech: "We are here for the sole purpose of destroying the SLN installation in this system. We have no wish to injure or cause any destruction to units of the Pittsburg SDF or to the economy or civilian installations of the planet. We will not fire at or request the surrender of the Pittsburg SDF, provided they do not fire on us. We will, however, fire upon any ship that tries to impede us on our mission. We will give the civilians working on the SLN platform time to evacuate the station and have no intention of capturing any merchant vessels that belong to Pittsburg interests. We do wish to leave you with the records of the SL aggression against Manticore and our efforts to end it, and we will be sending diplomats and economic experts to your planet to consider other options."

"To the commander of the SLN SD Squadron; you have 90 minutes to surrender your ships and abandon the BC-building slips; at 91 minutes we will fire for effect, and we are transmitting the battle details from Manticore, Zucker, and Cinnammon to show that we mean it. If you comply, no SLN personnel need to die today; but if you think today is a good day to die, we can accomodate you."

I think that would be an interesting approach...

We shall see, eventually. IMHO as always. YMMV.

Hutch wrote:I agree with most of what you said, Jonathan, but I think you add to the pressure by hitting Solarian League targets in their systems, while leaving alone the resources that belong to the system.

For an example, the Core World Pittsburg has a large SLN manufacturing base for BC's. There is a Squadron of SLN SD's defending it, and Pittsburg's SDF amounts to a couple of 50-year old CA's and a half-dozen older DD's.
And suddenly a Squadron of Havenite SD's, with a half-squadron of Grayson CLACs and 6 Sag-B's come hypering in.

The Commander of the GA force then makes the following speech: "We are here for the sole purpose of destroying the SLN installation in this system. We have no wish to injure or cause any destruction to units of the Pittsburg SDF or to the economy or civilian installations of the planet. We will not fire at or request the surrender of the Pittsburg SDF, provided they do not fire on us. We will, however, fire upon any ship that tries to impede us on our mission. We will give the civilians working on the SLN platform time to evacuate the station and have no intention of capturing any merchant vessels that belong to Pittsburg interests. We do wish to leave you with the records of the SL aggression against Manticore and our efforts to end it, and we will be sending diplomats and economic experts to your planet to consider other options."

"To the commander of the SLN SD Squadron; you have 90 minutes to surrender your ships and abandon the BC-building slips; at 91 minutes we will fire for effect, and we are transmitting the battle details from Manticore, Zucker, and Cinnammon to show that we mean it. If you comply, no SLN personnel need to die today; but if you think today is a good day to die, we can accomodate you."

I think that would be an interesting approach...

We shall see, eventually. IMHO as always. YMMV.

I agree it's an interesting approach. And basically what I'd say to do once you decide to move against the SLN bases.

But my personal preference is the run a little risk, given the current tech edge, and wait. If FF or BF units in a given sector are just acting to maintain real order (piracy surpression; not the bully tactics they use on Verge planets) I'd tend to leave them in peace. But in retaliation to any raids or offensive action; well that's another thing entirely.


But I do acknowledge that it's a risk leaving those (currently 'peaceful') bases and forces free. It's a lot easier to preemptively hit them while you know where they are than risk them getting dispersed hither and yon chasing down your commerce. OTOH if you had another proto-Maya situation where the FF commanders was quietly supporting the local planets in their attempts to maintain peace and sit out this League Manticore war then attacking them is likely to rile the planets no mater how clearly you explain you're really just hitting SLN targets.

Jonathan_S wrote:

Hutch wrote:I agree with most of what you said, Jonathan, but I think you add to the pressure by hitting Solarian League targets in their systems, while leaving alone the resources that belong to the system.

For an example, the Core World Pittsburg has a large SLN manufacturing base for BC's. There is a Squadron of SLN SD's defending it, and Pittsburg's SDF amounts to a couple of 50-year old CA's and a half-dozen older DD's.
And suddenly a Squadron of Havenite SD's, with a half-squadron of Grayson CLACs and 6 Sag-B's come hypering in.

The Commander of the GA force then makes the following speech: "We are here for the sole purpose of destroying the SLN installation in this system. We have no wish to injure or cause any destruction to units of the Pittsburg SDF or to the economy or civilian installations of the planet. We will not fire at or request the surrender of the Pittsburg SDF, provided they do not fire on us. We will, however, fire upon any ship that tries to impede us on our mission. We will give the civilians working on the SLN platform time to evacuate the station and have no intention of capturing any merchant vessels that belong to Pittsburg interests. We do wish to leave you with the records of the SL aggression against Manticore and our efforts to end it, and we will be sending diplomats and economic experts to your planet to consider other options."

"To the commander of the SLN SD Squadron; you have 90 minutes to surrender your ships and abandon the BC-building slips; at 91 minutes we will fire for effect, and we are transmitting the battle details from Manticore, Zucker, and Cinnammon to show that we mean it. If you comply, no SLN personnel need to die today; but if you think today is a good day to die, we can accomodate you."

I think that would be an interesting approach...

We shall see, eventually. IMHO as always. YMMV.

I agree it's an interesting approach. And basically what I'd say to do once you decide to move against the SLN bases.

But my personal preference is the run a little risk, given the current tech edge, and wait. If FF or BF units in a given sector are just acting to maintain real order (piracy surpression; not the bully tactics they use on Verge planets) I'd tend to leave them in peace. But in retaliation to any raids or offensive action; well that's another thing entirely.


But I do acknowledge that it's a risk leaving those (currently 'peaceful') bases and forces free. It's a lot easier to preemptively hit them while you know where they are than risk them getting dispersed hither and yon chasing down your commerce. OTOH if you had another proto-Maya situation where the FF commanders was quietly supporting the local planets in their attempts to maintain peace and sit out this League Manticore war then attacking them is likely to rile the planets no mater how clearly you explain you're really just hitting SLN targets.

The problem I see with the "waiting approach", you leave the initiative to the league, and thus risk getting hurt quite seriously. It is clear that the SLN has no chance to win facing the GA fleet, and they (finally) realise it. And they are already planning something that is far more dangerous for the GA: they plan to hit the GA by attacking convoys, maybe hitting a few backwards system in the havenite area,... With enough battlecruisers, even the SLN may succeed in taking over a convoy, and they have plenty of them.

You need to place them in such a situation that most of the SLN forces will end up scattered between the core worlds, being thus useless for more offensive actions...

I seriously doubt that the SLN and regular manufacturing are clearly separated.

For example, Manticore. Where all the manufacturing for the RMN and everything else for the entire planet is on a single gigantic platform.