My little project - a maptool for Honorverse

Progress update #2:

• Can now import and auto-normalize map-data although it needs smarter handling of cases where systems ends up on different positions - probably some kind of import overlay on current map.
• Wormhole connections.
• Capitals are marked.
• Basic selection of what info is showed.
• Added a lot more systems and some of the data used is kind of hard to verify that it's correct (will solve itself when I'm done with the editing-functionality).

Screenshots:
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click to embiggen

I note a number of serious flaws with your map.

You have a location marked for Visigoth, but Visigoth is not marked on any map from David Weber.

Your location for Joshua/Sasebo is SE of Sol when it should be WSW of Sol.

Your Talbott Cluster area is completely messed up. You have all kinds of stars incorrectly mixed in among the Talbott Cluster stars. Among the erroneous stars are: Kremlin, Gimlet, Carol's Star, Migration, Sutcliffe, Wonder, and Kettle. These are all stars that appear only on the "illegible map", and all should be well "south" of the Talbott Cluster. And as I said before, neither Sawa nor I incorporated the "illegible" map into our composites because it does not match any previous maps by David Weber.

May I ask where you got the map you based this on? It looks like Sawa's composite map, onto which someone tried to incorrectly paste the "illegible" map.

SWM wrote:I note a number of serious flaws with your map.

You have a location marked for Visigoth, but Visigoth is not marked on any map from David Weber.

Your location for Joshua/Sasebo is SE of Sol when it should be WSW of Sol.

Your Talbott Cluster area is completely messed up. You have all kinds of stars incorrectly mixed in among the Talbott Cluster stars. Among the erroneous stars are: Kremlin, Gimlet, Carol's Star, Migration, Sutcliffe, Wonder, and Kettle. These are all stars that appear only on the "illegible map", and all should be well "south" of the Talbott Cluster. And as I said before, neither Sawa nor I incorporated the "illegible" map into our composites because it does not match any previous maps by David Weber.

May I ask where you got the map you based this on? It looks like Sawa's composite map, onto which someone tried to incorrectly paste the "illegible" map.

It's from the illegible map, I'm using that dataset just to test things out. Visigoth is an experiment - it's location is extrapolated from Mesas location and a distance.

A question, the large JRMN map; the one with a lot of systems but almost no names - is the positions of the systems on it correct otherwise?

I was thinking of using it as a base and then match up names from credible sources.

Joat42 wrote:

SWM wrote:I note a number of serious flaws with your map.

You have a location marked for Visigoth, but Visigoth is not marked on any map from David Weber.

Your location for Joshua/Sasebo is SE of Sol when it should be WSW of Sol.

Your Talbott Cluster area is completely messed up. You have all kinds of stars incorrectly mixed in among the Talbott Cluster stars. Among the erroneous stars are: Kremlin, Gimlet, Carol's Star, Migration, Sutcliffe, Wonder, and Kettle. These are all stars that appear only on the "illegible map", and all should be well "south" of the Talbott Cluster. And as I said before, neither Sawa nor I incorporated the "illegible" map into our composites because it does not match any previous maps by David Weber.

May I ask where you got the map you based this on? It looks like Sawa's composite map, onto which someone tried to incorrectly paste the "illegible" map.

It's from the illegible map, I'm using that dataset just to test things out. Visigoth is an experiment - it's location is extrapolated from Mesas location and a distance.

A question, the large JRMN map; the one with a lot of systems but almost no names - is the positions of the systems on it correct otherwise?

I was thinking of using it as a base and then match up names from credible sources.

Yes, with the exception of the "illegible map", all of the other maps can be matched quite well to the large JRMN map. There's no need for you to try matching them, though. I've already done it--that's how I made my composite map. It includes every star marked on maps in the books, on maps David released in infodumps, in the Jaynes books, and on the maps from Evergreen and Top Cow--every canonical map that I am aware of, except the illegible map.

On my composite map, the solid stars are the stars that appear in the big JRMN map. The stars with holes in them are the ones which did not appear on the big JRMN map but did appear on other maps. You will see there are not many of them (only a couple dozen, I think). There are still many stars from the JRMN map which do not have names from any source.

The illegible map simply cannot be combined with any other maps. There is no way to distort the illegible map to match it with the other maps.

One: Good work.

Two: So, why not add all of the new planets with wormholes we have seen recently? A rise of Thunder etc. May as well do so. The descriptions given in text is as good as any other planet and better than many.

Three: Distances between planets is generally never stated in the text. Instead "travel time" is generally used. This makes mapping next to impossible as time is not linear distance due to grav waves.

Four: Uh, Visgoth is certainly NOT there. This is 3d, so it is probably "above" or "below" sol on your 2d map as the distance between Beowulf, Sol, and Beowulf and Visgoth is about the same yet they are all in the core. Mesa is also essentially in the protectorates of Shell, and not way out there as positioned. Ah well...

Enjoy

Relax wrote:One: Good work.

Two: So, why not add all of the new planets with wormholes we have seen recently? A rise of Thunder etc. May as well do so. The descriptions given in text is as good as any other planet and better than many.

We do not have any locations for any of those other wormholes. We have some distances, but it's not enough to pinpoint any locations. I tried estimating where some of the wormholes are, and there just wasn't enough information.

Three: Distances between planets is generally never stated in the text. Instead "travel time" is generally used. This makes mapping next to impossible as time is not linear distance due to grav waves.

Not quite true. First of all, there are quite a few explicit statements of distances in light-years. I have a complete list of them, as well as all the statements of travel times. Second of all, grav waves do not make a significant difference in the travel times in the text. Most of the travel will be at maximum speed; acceleration and deceleration phases make up only a small part of Honorverse long-distance travel, and grav waves do not affect maximum speed.

Thirdly, as far as I can tell from my measurements, David simply measured the distance and divided by a given velocity to determine approximate travel time--until he started doing distances in the Talbott Cluster. After that, it is impossible to correlate map distances with travel times or with explicitly stated spatial distances, even if you assume the systems are displaced along a third dimension, and regardless of whether you use the SoSag map or the illegible map.

SWM wrote:..snip..
On my composite map, the solid stars are the stars that appear in the big JRMN map. The stars with holes in them are the ones which did not appear on the big JRMN map but did appear on other maps. You will see there are not many of them (only a couple dozen, I think). There are still many stars from the JRMN map which do not have names from any source.
..snip..

It seems you created the composite map via image editing, correct?
(And for some reason I missed the map several times when looking for it on Honorverseglossary ).

What I have done is translating maps to pure data, basically each entry consists of 'Name, Polity, Area/Cluster, X-pos, Y-pos' which I just have entered into an Excel sheet. This data is then scaled to lightyears with 2 reference points where Sol is one when my application loads the data, which means that internally the application only works with ly until it's time to plot the systems.

I'll take a stab at your composite map and convert it to a pure dataset, it'll probably take some time though.

Relax wrote:Four: Uh, Visgoth is certainly NOT there. This is 3d, so it is probably "above" or "below" sol on your 2d map as the distance between Beowulf, Sol, and Beowulf and Visgoth is about the same yet they are all in the core. Mesa is also essentially in the protectorates of Shell, and not way out there as positioned. Ah well...

Visigoth, Beowulf, and Sol are all more-or-less in a line as the dispatch boat flies. So Visigoth is about 100 lt-yr from Sol, in the same direction as Beowulf. That's not too far to be in the Core.

Relax wrote:Four: Uh, Visgoth is certainly NOT there. This is 3d, so it is probably "above" or "below" sol on your 2d map as the distance between Beowulf, Sol, and Beowulf and Visgoth is about the same yet they are all in the core. Mesa is also essentially in the protectorates of Shell, and not way out there as positioned. Ah well...

Enjoy

According to On Basilisk Station, the distance between Beowulf and Sol is "little more than forty light-years". In Enemy Hands and Ashes of Victory both say it is "barely a week" by courier, while Storm from the Shadows says a courier can make it "within the week". It is not clear whether those were round-trips, since a courier should be able to travel 40 ly in 4.9 days. Shadow of Freedom says it is "no more than a T-week" by warship (which should be able to travel 40 ly in 5.8 days). Hard to say, but 40 ly is the best guess.

According to Storm from the Shadows, the distance from Beowulf to Visigoth is "barely sixty light-years". SftS also says that it is "five days" by Streak Drive courier. Shadow of Freedom says the distance from Beowulf to Visigoth is "less than sixty light-years". Cauldron of Ghosts says that it is "twelve T-days" by passenger liner, and "eighteen" days with commercial rad shields. These are all consistent with a distance of about 60 ly, maybe a bit less.

According to Storm from the Shadows, the round-trip time for a courier from Sol to Visigoth is "about twenty-five" days. At an effective speed of 3000 c, that would put Visigoth about 103 light-years from Sol, a bit less if you want to allow for acceleration/deceleration time (which it is not clear that David does when he estimates travel times).

40 plus 60 equals 100. Even if we put reasonable error bars on the 100 ly distance from Sol to Visigoth, it is clear that Visigoth must be relatively close to the straight line from Sol through Beowulf, about 60 ly further out than Beowulf.

Joat42--it looks like you have a wormhole connection between Monica and Mesa. That should not exist. I assume you are basing it on the line on the map from Shadow of Saganami. If you look carefully at that map, you see that the line from Monica has arrows on both ends. It is not a wormhole--it is merely an indication of the direction and distance to Mesa.