ISIS

Relax wrote:Yes, and their religion is? Are they active, or just go through the motions occasionally? Athiest? All you did was tally their politics.

Because religion is mostly irrelevant as long as it isn´t directly affecting political stance.

And in the example i used, out of 10 people, that is only true for one person.

What your personal prejudices are, doesn´t actually make a difference in the real world.

Relax wrote: but by and large, this is how the politics bell curve is formed in a non authoritative totalitarian state where one is actually allowed to vote.

Not really no. You can look at any of the 8 parties in parliament here and you will not find that kind of correlation with religion to them.

The one obvious exception is the tiny fringeparty the Christian Democrats which have a higher degree of religious people overall.
Aside from that, the spread is fairly even.

Tenshinai wrote:

Relax wrote:Yes, and their religion is? Are they active, or just go through the motions occasionally? Athiest? All you did was tally their politics.

Because religion is mostly irrelevant as long as it isn´t directly affecting political stance.

So, all you said, was that nearly everyone in Sweden holds the exact same religion and therefore there essentially are no differences on how to govern your people.

You have to have major differences in Religion to show different stances regarding how a government should govern, otherwise you are only arguing over the window shutter color.

By and large, Sweden is an Atheist country with its governance based in Christianity ideals that have since fallen into indifference.

Christianity teaches personal responsibility and independence whereas Atheists teach everything goes and right and wrong "changes" over time and the only check on this free wheeling indifference is government. Of course the government is made up of Atheists so it reflects its religious base. Requiring ever increasing Bigger government to "tame" their impulses as they do not have the religious background to help tame their impulses. That is why there is a gigantic difference between Christians who attend Church regularly and those who do not. And why polls always ask how often one attends. Those who attend regularly are having inputs into their lives to help "tame" our naturally greedy amoral natures. Atheists do not have this input, they all know they need it, so look to government to provide it, but government cannot provide it as that requires individual access, not the iron fist of one rule for all government.

So, all you said, was that nearly everyone in Sweden holds the exact same religion and therefore there essentially are no differences on how to govern your people.

Eh, no...

By and large, Sweden is an Atheist country

Incorrect. Had you bothered to ask a few hundred, or thousand, or even just 10, the vast majority would not be atheists.

The overall level of religious zealotry is LOW. Religion is personal and most people don´t really care what religion someone else belongs to or not. it´s simply not very interesting.

And you might want to recall that Sweden was actually more strongly religious than USA just a century or so ago.
(which btw, even with only one single VERY strong religion being noticeable, still did not end up with everyone pulling the same direction politically, not even close)

The vast majority also does not go to church, because really, if there is such an allknowing god as most churches preach, then where´s the need for churches?

You have to have major differences in Religion to show different stances regarding how a government should govern, otherwise you are only arguing over the window shutter color.

Reality shows that claim to be so extremely incorrect that it doesn´t even register on a scale of truthfulness.

Swedish politics is seriously NOT divided between religions, as i already said, parties have a fairly even spread of various religions, a bit more of the outspokenly religious with the Christian democrats and that´s about it.

Religion does not belong in politics, end of story.

Christianity teaches personal responsibility and independence whereas Atheists teach everything goes and right and wrong "changes" over time and the only check on this free wheeling indifference is government.

Bullshit. If you don´t have a clue, don´t show off your ignorance claiming it as truth, please.

Of course the government is made up of Atheists so it reflects its religious base. Requiring ever increasing Bigger government to "tame" their impulses as they do not have the religious background to help tame their impulses. That is why there is a gigantic difference between Christians who attend Church regularly and those who do not. And why polls always ask how often one attends. Those who attend regularly are having inputs into their lives to help "tame" our naturally greedy amoral natures. Atheists do not have this input, they all know they need it, so look to government to provide it, but government cannot provide it as that requires individual access, not the iron fist of one rule for all government.

I´m sorry but i have no other answer to that than either you´re an idiot, or you are listening to and giving far too much credit to idiots.

It´s just amazing how stupidly weird ideas people can come up with, despite how reality invariably and repeatedly shows that they are wrong.

I mean great, the country with the most destructive ability on earth is also the nation with the most aggressively delusional nutcases you can find.

Wonderful. The world is definitely going to hell.

And yes, that was a very intentional and sarcastic comment.

I apologise if you take offense, but i refuse to pander to thinking that i would expect to hear in a mental hospital, and probably not elsewhere.

Not because its "controversial" or whatever excuse you can come up with, but because it is so blatantly wrong. You simply cannot uphold such a twisted ideology without shutting yourself off from the world, or more specifically the parts of the world you don´t like to hear from.

Seriously, hitchhike around the world or something, talk to random people, notice that >99% of people will not even come close to your prejudices.

And this is why i detest most organised religions, people actually get paid to spread this kind of insane poison. It´s scary.

Or what the heck, read your bible again, and take note that you´re actually making yourself a sinner by thinking like that.

And no, people are not by default amoral. And that btw is a disgusting way of trying to force people into religious slavery.

Science has actually killed off that thought VERY thoroughly. Children only weeks old have been found to clearly understand and prefer concepts like "fair".
That preference however tend to diminish with age, so clearlym culture corrupts.


Bah!

From personal experience i have found that ones who claim to be devout christians are more prone to break the rules of society. Mind you this is just my personal experience with christians. However as a atheist i do not consider that everything goes as it does from what some people believe. Each and every person has a personal responsibility towards their fellow man even if its to just be courteous and say hi.
I also do my utmost to always help when i can at the food bank or i donate to them plus i look out for people when i think a situation is dangerous. As i said each person has to develop theri own personal sense of responsibility, and if they cant do it on their own without the promises of a skydaddy then that is their gig.

Tenshinai wrote:

So, all you said, was that nearly everyone in Sweden holds the exact same religion and therefore there essentially are no differences on how to govern your people.

Eh, no...

By and large, Sweden is an Atheist country

Incorrect. Had you bothered to ask a few hundred, or thousand, or even just 10, the vast majority would not be atheists.

The overall level of religious zealotry is LOW. Religion is personal and most people don´t really care what religion someone else belongs to or not. it´s simply not very interesting.

And you might want to recall that Sweden was actually more strongly religious than USA just a century or so ago.
(which btw, even with only one single VERY strong religion being noticeable, still did not end up with everyone pulling the same direction politically, not even close)

The vast majority also does not go to church, because really, if there is such an allknowing god as most churches preach, then where´s the need for churches?

You have to have major differences in Religion to show different stances regarding how a government should govern, otherwise you are only arguing over the window shutter color.

Reality shows that claim to be so extremely incorrect that it doesn´t even register on a scale of truthfulness.

Swedish politics is seriously NOT divided between religions, as i already said, parties have a fairly even spread of various religions, a bit more of the outspokenly religious with the Christian democrats and that´s about it.

Religion does not belong in politics, end of story.

Christianity teaches personal responsibility and independence whereas Atheists teach everything goes and right and wrong "changes" over time and the only check on this free wheeling indifference is government.

Bullshit. If you don´t have a clue, don´t show off your ignorance claiming it as truth, please.

Of course the government is made up of Atheists so it reflects its religious base. Requiring ever increasing Bigger government to "tame" their impulses as they do not have the religious background to help tame their impulses. That is why there is a gigantic difference between Christians who attend Church regularly and those who do not. And why polls always ask how often one attends. Those who attend regularly are having inputs into their lives to help "tame" our naturally greedy amoral natures. Atheists do not have this input, they all know they need it, so look to government to provide it, but government cannot provide it as that requires individual access, not the iron fist of one rule for all government.

I´m sorry but i have no other answer to that than either you´re an idiot, or you are listening to and giving far too much credit to idiots.

It´s just amazing how stupidly weird ideas people can come up with, despite how reality invariably and repeatedly shows that they are wrong.

I mean great, the country with the most destructive ability on earth is also the nation with the most aggressively delusional nutcases you can find.

Wonderful. The world is definitely going to hell.

And yes, that was a very intentional and sarcastic comment.

I apologise if you take offense, but i refuse to pander to thinking that i would expect to hear in a mental hospital, and probably not elsewhere.

Not because its "controversial" or whatever excuse you can come up with, but because it is so blatantly wrong. You simply cannot uphold such a twisted ideology without shutting yourself off from the world, or more specifically the parts of the world you don´t like to hear from.

Seriously, hitchhike around the world or something, talk to random people, notice that >99% of people will not even come close to your prejudices.

And this is why i detest most organised religions, people actually get paid to spread this kind of insane poison. It´s scary.

Or what the heck, read your bible again, and take note that you´re actually making yourself a sinner by thinking like that.

And no, people are not by default amoral. And that btw is a disgusting way of trying to force people into religious slavery.

Science has actually killed off that thought VERY thoroughly. Children only weeks old have been found to clearly understand and prefer concepts like "fair".
That preference however tend to diminish with age, so clearlym culture corrupts.


Bah!

Judging by your diatribe, I must have hit the nail on the head. At the minimum it would appear you have never argued apologetics before.

Bible teaches that we are ALL amoral. We know what is right, our conscience, but choose otherwise. We all need help.

I agree, organized religion goes against what the Bible teaches. Can you answer: is the Pope Catholic? See if you actually know one thing about the Bible and Christianity.

People like organizations to feel "secure" and inclusive even if they are not believe in that religion. Just a different power aggrandizing structure. The Catholic Church, Lutheran Chuch, Chuch of England, Sweden, etc.

There is no peaceful Islam. Instead of two sharply divided groups, peaceful Islam and extremist Islam, there is a spectrum of acceptable terrorism.

Muslim institutions have different places on that spectrum depending on their allegiances and tactics, but the process of radicalization is rarely a sharp break from the past for any except converts to Islam.

and:

Omar Saleh seemed cheerful enough about Hamas dropping Kassam rockets on Israeli towns and cities. Would he have supported his son setting off a bomb in the Statue of Liberty? Who knows, but his son was already starting from a family position that Muslim terrorism against non-Muslims was acceptable.

Everything else is the fine print.

From:
http://freedomoutpost.com/2015/06/the-m ... alization/

Is the evidence for this adequate?

Once again, innocent lives weren't lost because a criminal got his hands on a gun; lives were lost because innocent law abiding citizens were prohibited from exercising their natural rights to self-defense.

http://freedomoutpost.com/2015/06/blood ... 53UWXmh.99

Is this common sense?

Relax wrote:Judging by your diatribe, I must have hit the nail on the head.

No. Seriously, if you think getting your every statement crushed equals being right, then there´s something extremely wrong with you.

Relax wrote:Bible teaches that we are ALL amoral.

Who cares? Especially when REALITY has proven that to be bullshit.

If even a 2-week old baby can understand and act morally, well your statement is so shot down that you can´t even see a smoketrail.

Relax wrote:We know what is right, our conscience, but choose otherwise. We all need help.

Rubbish again, as usual.

And as viciokie notes, the more religion gets involved, the more selfassured amoral idiots tend to rear their head.

Science has found, beyond doubt, that with the exception of certain mental conditions, comprising a tiny minority in total, in the absence of "damage", the great majority of people tend towards morality and being "good".

This is even one of the reasons why economists are unable to make better predictions, they simply cannot predict how large portion of populations will NOT act in their own selfinterest, but rather by moral or other standards.

Relax wrote:Can you answer: is the Pope Catholic? See if you actually know one thing about the Bible and Christianity.

Seriously? The pope is the head of the catholic church, whether the pope is catholic is actually a terrible question as the requirement to be eligible to be made pope is to be "a male baptized catholic", it doesn´t specify that the person has to also be a believing/faithful catholic.

Relax wrote:People like organizations to feel "secure"

Ye-es... Isn´t it amazingly interesting how religious fervor and zealotry tends to disappear when a society becomes safe and peaceful?

Off hand I would say you are a walking talking definition of every Aethist cliche.

Every time someone says "The bible says" to justify their argument they have lost credibility with me. Why is the bible any more authoritive than any other religious book? Or for that matter literature like Lord of The Rings or Hubbard's nonsense?
The original sin argument that we are all born immoral and need spiritual guidance from an organization is just plain business hype from such organisations. The kindest and most empathetic person I know is my oldest granddaughter, who has never had her mind contaminated by such propaganda.
Talking with a wide range of friends I was amused to find that they too avoid doing business with companies who advertise using the little fish mark (indicating Christianity) because such companies in practice have proven to them to be the most unethical and rapacious.

Conclude what you wish, Daryl. However, your understanding of original sin is faulty. Original sin does not assert that people are born immoral, just separated from God. That is what sin is in essence, actions or thoughts that move us away from God.

When Adam and Eve ate of the fruit, they disobeyed God and learned that they were free to disobey if they so chose. By disobeying they separated themselves from God and all the benefits of living in proximity both moral and physical to God. As a consequence they doomed all their descendants to also live a life separated from God. That's all original sin means as it applies to us, their descendants. Humanity is capable of moral judgment even if they choose not to follow God and remain separated from Him. What they are not capable of is living their lives consistent with God's purpose for us as individuals and as the human race. For that we need to let him into our lives.

Daryl wrote:Every time someone says "The bible says" to justify their argument they have lost credibility with me. Why is the bible any more authoritive than any other religious book? Or for that matter literature like Lord of The Rings or Hubbard's nonsense?
The original sin argument that we are all born immoral and need spiritual guidance from an organization is just plain business hype from such organisations. The kindest and most empathetic person I know is my oldest granddaughter, who has never had her mind contaminated by such propaganda.
Talking with a wide range of friends I was amused to find that they too avoid doing business with companies who advertise using the little fish mark (indicating Christianity) because such companies in practice have proven to them to be the most unethical and rapacious.