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BC(P)

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BC(P)
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:25 pm

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Aside from anything else, I hate the parenthesis used in these acronyms; we didn't need them when we got the DDG!

So don't correct it if I leave it out.

FWIW, the Aggies have 360 pods. That was a lot less than the Medusas, but it's 90 salvos.

The original pod loadout on the Medusa SDP with the Mk-41 MDM was 492 pods; that's 82 salvos. So, until the flat-packs, the Aggie had more endurance, and more range than the older SDs/BCs.

Against the older Warlords, and Mars', and against Sollies, I don't think that is as obsolete as some of the comments about the class in HoS seem to indicate. Seems to me, it still could be quite a rough go for most of the competition it will encounter, at least until the Sollies go belly up. . . .

Regards,

Rob
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Re: BC(P)
Post by MaxxQ   » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:59 pm

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Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Aside from anything else, I hate the parenthesis used in these acronyms; we didn't need them when we got the DDG!

So don't correct it if I leave it out.

FWIW, the Aggies have 360 pods. That was a lot less than the Medusas, but it's 90 salvos.

The original pod loadout on the Medusa SDP with the Mk-41 MDM was 492 pods; that's 82 salvos. So, until the flat-packs, the Aggie had more endurance, and more range than the older SDs/BCs.

Against the older Warlords, and Mars', and against Sollies, I don't think that is as obsolete as some of the comments about the class in HoS seem to indicate. Seems to me, it still could be quite a rough go for most of the competition it will encounter, at least until the Sollies go belly up. . . .

Regards,

Rob


The Medusas may have had fewer salvos, but each salvo had two extra pods, so salvo for salvo, the Medusa had greater throw weight.
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Re: BC(P)
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:17 pm

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MaxxQ wrote:
The Medusas may have had fewer salvos, but each salvo had two extra pods, so salvo for salvo, the Medusa had greater throw weight.



Thanks for the response! didn't think BuNine would comment.
Wasn't just more pods- Medusa's Mk 41 pods had 12 missiles per pod, I think, so 72 missiles vs. 56 for Aggies. I wasn't comparing throw weight, just total number of salvos, and thus, time before they shoot themselves dry. Now, of course, with the newest pods, it's the other way around.

Rob
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Re: BC(P)
Post by JeffEngel   » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:19 pm

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Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Aside from anything else, I hate the parenthesis used in these acronyms; we didn't need them when we got the DDG!

So don't correct it if I leave it out.

FWIW, the Aggies have 360 pods. That was a lot less than the Medusas, but it's 90 salvos.

The original pod loadout on the Medusa SDP with the Mk-41 MDM was 492 pods; that's 82 salvos. So, until the flat-packs, the Aggie had more endurance, and more range than the older SDs/BCs.

Against the older Warlords, and Mars', and against Sollies, I don't think that is as obsolete as some of the comments about the class in HoS seem to indicate. Seems to me, it still could be quite a rough go for most of the competition it will encounter, at least until the Sollies go belly up. . . .

Regards,

Rob

The problem with BC(P)'s is mostly that admirals have this weird compulsion to use them as wallers and get distressed when they go boom, or run out of ammunition. Using them like battlecruisers have traditionally been used, or working out any other doctrine for their use, seems to be just outside their heads.

There may also be this peculiar romance of the guns, of firing large numbers of missiles direct from your vessel, feeling it rumble with the launches, that podlayers just don't deliver. With wallers, good sense has stopped that from being a controlling decision-making factor. With BC's... not so much.
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Re: BC(P)
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:23 pm

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Armed Neo-Bob wrote:..., I don't think that is as obsolete as some of the comments about the class in HoS seem to indicate.



The Agamemnons problem isn't really offensive endurance, or even defensive firepower density. The problem is that they can't take much battle damage and remain functional, let alone combat capable.

I believe the description, "A sledgehammer wrapped in an eggshell" was used to describe them.
.
.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: BC(P)
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:38 pm

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JeffEngel wrote:snip
The problem with BC(P)'s is mostly that admirals have this weird compulsion to use them as wallers and get distressed when they go boom, or run out of ammunition. Using them like battlecruisers have traditionally been used, or working out any other doctrine for their use, seems to be just outside their heads.

There may also be this peculiar romance of the guns, of firing large numbers of missiles direct from your vessel, feeling it rumble with the launches, that podlayers just don't deliver. With wallers, good sense has stopped that from being a controlling decision-making factor. With BC's... not so much.


I saw a post by MWW, maybe here or in the pearls, where he said Solon was not exactly how the Admiralty had envisioned using the ships at all, that it was just a lack of ships at the time . . . .

Weird Harold wrote:
Armed Neo-Bob wrote:..., I don't think that is as obsolete as some of the comments about the class in HoS seem to indicate.



The Agamemnons problem isn't really offensive endurance, or even defensive firepower density. The problem is that they can't take much battle damage and remain functional, let alone combat capable.

I believe the description, "A sledgehammer wrapped in an eggshell" was used to describe them.


The problem really is that the core moves too many systems too close to the hull, and that the hull is probably armored like the late flight Reliants, and not the Nike. Also, they were hit by capital ship MDMs, not cruiser weight stuff. So, using for its actual intended role, it might not do so poorly.

Something I read somewhere suggested it is a bad idea for any BC to go up against a waller. . . .even if you can outgun them for awhile, it is just a bad habit. :D

Rob
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Re: BC(P)
Post by kzt   » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:57 pm

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Solon fails on so many levels. Like, if you are worried about a threat that might require a couple of SDs, why are you arming the vast majority of your force with anti-cruiser missiles instead of the same anti-SD missiles that the SDs have? However if you are so damn confident that the Mk16s are all you need, why don't the SDs get loaded with them too?
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Re: BC(P)
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:13 pm

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kzt wrote:Solon fails on so many levels. Like, if you are worried about a threat that might require a couple of SDs, why are you arming the vast majority of your force with anti-cruiser missiles instead of the same anti-SD missiles that the SDs have? However if you are so damn confident that the Mk16s are all you need, why don't the SDs get loaded with them too?


iirc,that was addressed in the authors' comment on Solon too. In response to a post from you, too. LOL :D

For those that missed it, ONI failed to learn of the Moriarty system, or about the deployed ambush.

Against Bogey One, what they sent was overkill. Against what they found in addition to Bogey One, they should have re-scheduled the appointment. At least, that was more or less rfc's take on it.

Also, (for those who missed your own earlier comments), kzt _always_ argues for the BCP to have all up MDMs, not Mk-16s. (Save you the effort!) :)

Regards,
Rob
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Re: BC(P)
Post by JeffEngel   » Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:20 pm

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Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Also, (for those who missed your own earlier comments), kzt _always_ argues for the BCP to have all up MDMs, not Mk-16s. (Save you the effort!) :)

Regards,
Rob

Even with the G-mod warheads? They're certainly able to hurt wallers with those, and badly.
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Re: BC(P)
Post by kzt   » Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:22 pm

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JeffEngel wrote:Even with the G-mod warheads? They're certainly able to hurt wallers with those, and badly.

When did they become available?

And when you extend the same improvements to a Mk23 what happens?
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