The Maya Crisis...

Hornblower wrote:

munroburton wrote:Seems to me that delegations have four options whilst voting: aye, abstain, nay, veto. It'd be possible to abstain or vote against a motion without deploying the veto - IIRC, somewhere it says that League members have come up with methods of discouraging persistent vetoers.

This a curious fact that Beowulf couldn't veto the motion. Perhaps the veto is limited to mayor legislation. This vote was about an investigation committee. Or RFC needed it for the story ...

Aye. Sorry, I didn't expand my thoughts fully. It is also my belief that the veto may only be applicable in the final stage of legislation, after it has been reviewed by the Assembly and a number of committees several times.

So in the case of the special committee to investigate treason blah blah Beowulf, the veto would only become usable once that committee had reported its conclusions and offered a legislative course of action. I'm sure that's when the Assembly is going to explode in the Mandarins' faces, as most of the ~2,900 opposed(and some of those who voted in favour as well) will then be very unhappy about potential consequences for them down the line.

--snipping

munroburton wrote:Aye. Sorry, I didn't expand my thoughts fully. It is also my belief that the veto may only be applicable in the final stage of legislation, after it has been reviewed by the Assembly and a number of committees several times.

So in the case of the special committee to investigate treason blah blah Beowulf, the veto would only become usable once that committee had reported its conclusions and offered a legislative course of action. I'm sure that's when the Assembly is going to explode in the Mandarins' faces, as most of the ~2,900 opposed(and some of those who voted in favour as well) will then be very unhappy about potential consequences for them down the line.

I think you're probably right, but keep in mind that the ultimate goal (MAlign driven) is to knock Beowulf out of the league AND get the SLN to do the dirty work of taking out Beowulf's SDF. So my read is that the influrnce is that the Mandarin's goal was to REMOVE Beowulf from being able to vote by declaring them treasonous.

It's been stated by David that votes to expel a system from the SL cannot be vetoed and we know that other business can be conducted without the ability to veto it.

munroburton wrote:Seems to me that delegations have four options whilst voting: aye, abstain, nay, veto. It'd be possible to abstain or vote against a motion without deploying the veto - IIRC, somewhere it says that League members have come up with methods of discouraging persistent vetoers.

Hornblower wrote:This a curious fact that Beowulf couldn't veto the motion. Perhaps the veto is limited to mayor legislation. This vote was about an investigation committee. Or RFC needed it for the story ...

munroburton wrote:Aye. Sorry, I didn't expand my thoughts fully. It is also my belief that the veto may only be applicable in the final stage of legislation, after it has been reviewed by the Assembly and a number of committees several times.

So in the case of the special committee to investigate treason blah blah Beowulf, the veto would only become usable once that committee had reported its conclusions and offered a legislative course of action. I'm sure that's when the Assembly is going to explode in the Mandarins' faces, as most of the ~2,900 opposed(and some of those who voted in favour as well) will then be very unhappy about potential consequences for them down the line.

I think the veto applies to "Legislation" or the writing of laws applicable to all League members; the vote on Beowulf, that is, to appoint a committee of some sort to "investigate" a member wouldn't be a "law." So, your comment on legislative action after the hearing seems right.

Although, I could be wrong on that, I think it is just a "proceeding." And kzt also addressed the veto.

Rob

kzt wrote:It was also done as a constitutional amendment, which isn't subject to the same blocking.

At least when the US goes for a constitutional amendment, it starts with an Act of Congress (which the President can veto). Now, does the Solarian Constitution work the same way? Weber might know. [If that act is to convene a convention, the only check on the convention is the fact that states have to ratify amendments.]

Anyway, the stated reason for the amendment was to avoid any risk of veto when the Edict is invoked.

I was under the impression that the Eriadani Edict was enacted by a referendum process in the SL constitution.

kenl511 wrote:I was under the impression that the Eriadani Edict was enacted by a referendum process in the SL constitution.

Hmm. That does seem vaguely familiar. So I guess the League could oust the Permanent Undersecretaries, by voting them out of office? (Yeah, yeah, not happening, but it's still an amusing thought.)

akira.taylor wrote:
Hmm. That does seem vaguely familiar. So I guess the League could oust the Permanent Undersecretaries, by voting them out of office? (Yeah, yeah, not happening, but it's still an amusing thought.)

Eventually the SL, as structured, could methodically reform itself to be an effective Government. I doubt they will get the time. I rather expect any change will be imposed by either a coup or breakup.

akira.taylor wrote:

kzt wrote:It was also done as a constitutional amendment, which isn't subject to the same blocking.

At least when the US goes for a constitutional amendment, it starts with an Act of Congress (which the President can veto). Now, does the Solarian Constitution work the same way? Weber might know. [If that act is to convene a convention, the only check on the convention is the fact that states have to ratify amendments.]

Anyway, the stated reason for the amendment was to avoid any risk of veto when the Edict is invoked.

Article V of the U.S. Constitution doesn't appear to allow for a Presidential veto. It doesn't seem like it would be all that meaningful anyway, since the resolution requires a 2/3rds majority in both houses.

Back to Maya, I don't recall any actions by the Malign in the area, but I am sure that they are operating in the area and will begin to move. They may have a number of sleepers in area and will move in new agents. They may manipulate the SLN or leak parts of "the Sepoy Option" but will certainly make themselves a problem. This is theirbackdoor and the path to the Haven sector.

Meanwhile, "Spys are Us" or C&Z covert ops will have to spend some time on Mesa to stabilize some sort of provisional government, whether it's the Andies or Manticore that pull them out. They will question why the Malign has spent so much time messing with the area of a wormhole they have not explored. I don't recall if the pirates they sponsored in the area were ever connected to Manpower, a lot of the details escape me of the long short story of the Greyson princess and the Marine. Then the genocidal strike by the statesec rebels. This will be asub plot, but one with a lot of action.