HFQ Official Snippet #28

Hi Don,

This is where questions about Rayno come in.

Given Clyntahn's rages. NTM lies and the rest of your list below, I can't help wondering when the rest of the Go4 might prefer someone more rational, especially if they frame it as only Rayno can save the jihad, which he realises is true.

That's the message I expect Rhobair might share with Rayno, the same way Hauwerd did to him.

If Clyntahn finds out and has him killed, the inquisition is tremendously weakened, so its still a win-win for allies, since I don't think the Go4, current or new, will survive all that long after treating with the heretics.

OWL ought to be able to determine what sensors are protecting the temple, since detecting them should be beyond their effective range, without giving his away, especially if he uses obsolete sensors the federation didn't consider a threat any more.

L

n7axw wrote:

Peter2 wrote:*quote="lyonheart"*Hi JeffEngel,

Given the expectation the MHoG will be effectively defeated by this fall, the BS, NTM Dohlar, may have to begin making some accommodations with the even more powerful republic by winter since the Go4 will no longer be able to protect [ie intimidate] them.

We have got to get a Go4 meeting at that time, it will be intensely delicious as they come to grips with how everything since they ordered Charis destroyed has failed.

*quote*

Yes indeed. I am so looking forward to reading RFC's fly-on-the-wall report of that meeting. I wonder if there is any chance of thoughts crossing Clyntahn's mind to the effect that either (a) it might have been a good idea to leave Charis well alone (i.e. take the money and continue with his repellent lifestyle) or (b) having burnt his fingers on Charis, to leave Siddarmark severely alone? Almost certainly not, but I can always hope that one or other of the 3 of the Go4 tells him that. It would be delicious if Magwair were to do it. If Clyntahn reacts in his usual bull-headed way, that might just pit the army against the Inquisition . . .

Well, I can always dream!

Actually, I don't think your dreaming is so far off target. Magwair and the AOG have to be getting tired of such things as faulty intel, withheld intel, orders passed outside of the chain of command and all sorts of other behavior that that really undermines the Jihad. In fact I bet some of the more rational inquisitors have been observing the same thing and could start wondering if it isn't time for Clyntahn to go.

Don

lyonheart wrote:Given Clyntahn's rages. NTM lies and the rest of your list below, I can't help wondering when the rest of the Go4 might prefer someone more rational, especially if they frame it as only Rayno can save the jihad, which he realises is true.

That's the message I expect Rhobair might share with Rayno, the same way Hauwerd did to him.

First, I do look forward to our next glimpse into the workings of the Go4. But I don't think it'll feature outright defeatism - Clyntahns would punish that immediately. Similarly, I don't think Rayno is a vehicle for unseating Clyntahn. While we as readers deplore Clyntahn, I figure that he has significant support within the more fanatical elements of the Order of Schueler. The way I see it, Clyntahn has effectively delivered the whole CoGA (well, minus the heretics) into the hands of the Order of Schueler, which is at the peak of its power. This should give him considerable clout within the Order and the Inquisition. Moreover, Clyntahn is only doing what a probably solid majority in the OoS actually believes is necessary. If Rayno would rebel against Clyntahn then it's IMHO rather likely that he would loose and even if Clyntahn were to be unseated, Rayno would then not become the leader of the OoS. So, there's no incentive for Rayno to conspire against Clyntahn. Rhobair should've worked that out, so Rayno is not the one to approach. If Rhobair wants to move against Clyntahn he needs Maigwair, and then both have to convince Trynair to support them. And I don't see Trynair going down that road voluntarily...
Indeed, I would expect open Rebellion within the OoS against Clyntahn only when Allied armies are marching on Zion - i.e. far too late....

I would have thought that the other 3 acting together would have a pretty reasonable chance of dealing with the Clyntahn problem by direct action.
Clyntahn dies in one of their closed meetings held in a pretty soundproofed room. (Poison, or Maigwair, the professional soldier, runs him through.) Maigwair sticks his head round the door, gives the signal and the Go3's guards take out Clyntahn's. The Temple Guard then arrests Rayno and as many other leading Inquisitors as possible, using those handy wands that unlock all the doors in the Temple. Sadly, some of them may die resisting arrest. Those that don't confess to a variety of atrocities, of course.
Meanwhile the Go3 swear, if necessary, that Clyntahn finally went OTT and physically attacked one of the others with a concealed weapon, so that his demise was self defense. The Grand Vicar, naturally, endorses their version of events and appoints a 'safe pair of hands' as the temporary head of the OoS until elections can properly be held. Every Vicar whom Clyntahn has terrorised, at least tacitly falls in line. The Guard lock down the Temple and defend it against local Inquisition forces until loyal army units arrive if need be.

The main weakness in Clyntahn's whole terror regime is that it has a single point of failure, his mortality.

I don't really expoect to see this happening though. The other 3 are neither convinced enough nor resolute enough to carry it off and that's because I am pretty sure RFC doesn't want things to turn out as outlined above.

Randomiser wrote:I would have thought that the other 3 acting together would have a pretty reasonable chance of dealing with the Clyntahn problem by direct action.
Clyntahn dies in one of their closed meetings held in a pretty soundproofed room. (Poison, or Maigwair, the professional soldier, runs him through.) Maigwair sticks his head round the door, gives the signal and the Go3's guards take out Clyntahn's. The Temple Guard then arrests Rayno and as many other leading Inquisitors as possible, using those handy wands that unlock all the doors in the Temple. Sadly, some of them may die resisting arrest. Those that don't confess to a variety of atrocities, of course.
Meanwhile the Go3 swear, if necessary, that Clyntahn finally went OTT and physically attacked one of the others with a concealed weapon, so that his demise was self defense. The Grand Vicar, naturally, endorses their version of events and appoints a 'safe pair of hands' as the temporary head of the OoS until elections can properly be held. Every Vicar whom Clyntahn has terrorised, at least tacitly falls in line. The Guard lock down the Temple and defend it against local Inquisition forces until loyal army units arrive if need be.

The main weakness in Clyntahn's whole terror regime is that it has a single point of failure, his mortality.

I don't really expoect to see this happening though. The other 3 are neither convinced enough nor resolute enough to carry it off and that's because I am pretty sure RFC doesn't want things to turn out as outlined above.

While I would relish this happening - a true coup d'état of the Inquisition - IMHO it's not going to happen. Clyntahn has (per textev) LOTS of spies embedded throughout the temple. And I get the impression that not all of them are Schulerites either. I just don't think the other three members of the Go4 could coordinate everything quickly enough. There would need to be some pre-planning with others - outside of the Go4. And as soon as that happens, the entire plot would get exposed and Clyntahn would put THEM to the Question... Nope. To succeed, it would need to happen very suddenly and violently. It would need to be executed by ONE member of the Go4 and they're all too timid to go it alone.

Hi Weberfan,

We know Rhobair is planning something, that by textev implication happens during the winter when Zion is so isolated.

Even before his understanding with Magwair, Duchairn was already into his plan, which appears to be arranging a 'perfect storm' of financial and economic disasters as well as popular mob action etc, as the news from the front gets worse and worse; panicking many if not most of Zion to demand changes and corrections to all of Clyntahn's decisions.

But I expect that all that will be in the next book.

L

WeberFan wrote:

Randomiser wrote:I would have thought that the other 3 acting together would have a pretty reasonable chance of dealing with the Clyntahn problem by direct action.
Clyntahn dies in one of their closed meetings held in a pretty soundproofed room. (Poison, or Maigwair, the professional soldier, runs him through.) Maigwair sticks his head round the door, gives the signal and the Go3's guards take out Clyntahn's. The Temple Guard then arrests Rayno and as many other leading Inquisitors as possible, using those handy wands that unlock all the doors in the Temple. Sadly, some of them may die resisting arrest. Those that don't confess to a variety of atrocities, of course.
Meanwhile the Go3 swear, if necessary, that Clyntahn finally went OTT and physically attacked one of the others with a concealed weapon, so that his demise was self defense. The Grand Vicar, naturally, endorses their version of events and appoints a 'safe pair of hands' as the temporary head of the OoS until elections can properly be held. Every Vicar whom Clyntahn has terrorised, at least tacitly falls in line. The Guard lock down the Temple and defend it against local Inquisition forces until loyal army units arrive if need be.

The main weakness in Clyntahn's whole terror regime is that it has a single point of failure, his mortality.

I don't really expoect to see this happening though. The other 3 are neither convinced enough nor resolute enough to carry it off and that's because I am pretty sure RFC doesn't want things to turn out as outlined above.

While I would relish this happening - a true coup d'état of the Inquisition - IMHO it's not going to happen. Clyntahn has (per textev) LOTS of spies embedded throughout the temple. And I get the impression that not all of them are Schulerites either. I just don't think the other three members of the Go4 could coordinate everything quickly enough. There would need to be some pre-planning with others - outside of the Go4. And as soon as that happens, the entire plot would get exposed and Clyntahn would put THEM to the Question... Nope. To succeed, it would need to happen very suddenly and violently. It would need to be executed by ONE member of the Go4 and they're all too timid to go it alone.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Weberfan,

We know Rhobair is planning something, that by textev implication happens during the winter when Zion is so isolated.

Even before his understanding with Magwair, Duchairn was already into his plan, which appears to be arranging a 'perfect storm' of financial and economic disasters as well as popular mob action etc, as the news from the front gets worse and worse; panicking many if not most of Zion to demand changes and corrections to all of Clyntahn's decisions.

But I expect that all that will be in the next book.

L

Do you suppose that may be related to Nynian's need for fast, secure transport into Zion out of Merlin?

JeffEngel wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Weberfan,

We know Rhobair is planning something, that by textev implication happens during the winter when Zion is so isolated.

Even before his understanding with Magwair, Duchairn was already into his plan, which appears to be arranging a 'perfect storm' of financial and economic disasters as well as popular mob action etc, as the news from the front gets worse and worse; panicking many if not most of Zion to demand changes and corrections to all of Clyntahn's decisions.

But I expect that all that will be in the next book.

L

Do you suppose that may be related to Nynian's need for fast, secure transport into Zion out of Merlin?

That ... seems rather likely, actually. Although I'm not sure that Duchairn is aware that she's going to show up, possibly with a Seijin in tow.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Weberfan,

We know Rhobair is planning something, that by textev implication happens during the winter when Zion is so isolated.

Even before his understanding with Magwair, Duchairn was already into his plan, which appears to be arranging a 'perfect storm' of financial and economic disasters as well as popular mob action etc, as the news from the front gets worse and worse; panicking many if not most of Zion to demand changes and corrections to all of Clyntahn's decisions.

But I expect that all that will be in the next book.

L

Agreed. Rhobair is definitely planning something. But IMHO it will be something sneaky... I don't think he has the courage to do something himself (for example, he would never be able to stick a dagger in Clyntahn's back). But I think he would go as far as providing the dagger or facilitating access. I see him more as a conspirator and not the core leader.

WeberFan wrote:

lyonheart wrote:Hi Weberfan,

We know Rhobair is planning something, that by textev implication happens during the winter when Zion is so isolated.

Even before his understanding with Magwair, Duchairn was already into his plan, which appears to be arranging a 'perfect storm' of financial and economic disasters as well as popular mob action etc, as the news from the front gets worse and worse; panicking many if not most of Zion to demand changes and corrections to all of Clyntahn's decisions.

But I expect that all that will be in the next book.

L

Agreed. Rhobair is definitely planning something. But IMHO it will be something sneaky... I don't think he has the courage to do something himself (for example, he would never be able to stick a dagger in Clyntahn's back). But I think he would go as far as providing the dagger or facilitating access. I see him more as a conspirator and not the core leader.

If you are looking for a core leader in the Temple to oppose Clyntahn, Rhobair is probably the best you've got. Traynair has at this point turned into a nonentity. Magwair might be able to use the guard to keep the inquisition off Duchairn's back. But he's not really an initiator.

I keep wondering how Nynian and her covert organization might play into this. Now that I think about it, she confronted Merlin with the idea of a quick trip to Zion at the end of LAMA. We've had lots of drama involving Nynian in the snippets. But no trip to Zion to this point...hummm

Don

Hi Don,

The next snippet may explain the connection or link between the two.

Trynair has been disappointing, but suppose he begins to realise despite his fear of Clyntahn, that Clyntahn has wrecked everything he's touched [the anti-Midas], and thus the temple and all he holds dear [ie power] is in jeopardy?

This probably won't happen until after the MHoG is defeated, but if Clyntahn recognizes the others now see him as the root of their ruination, he may take precipitate action that fails [again] and enables the survivors with Nynian's help to win.

But the Go4 survivors know they depend upon Nynian, with her connections to the mob and other secret powerful sources-they don't recognise Merlin or Nimue yet.

What will her terms be?

L

n7axw wrote:

WeberFan wrote:*quote="lyonheart"*Hi Weberfan,

We know Rhobair is planning something, that by textev implication happens during the winter when Zion is so isolated.

Even before his understanding with Magwair, Duchairn was already into his plan, which appears to be arranging a 'perfect storm' of financial and economic disasters as well as popular mob action etc, as the news from the front gets worse and worse; panicking many if not most of Zion to demand changes and corrections to all of Clyntahn's decisions.

But I expect that all that will be in the next book.

L*quote*

Agreed. Rhobair is definitely planning something. But IMHO it will be something sneaky... I don't think he has the courage to do something himself (for example, he would never be able to stick a dagger in Clyntahn's back). But I think he would go as far as providing the dagger or facilitating access. I see him more as a conspirator and not the core leader.

If you are looking for a core leader in the Temple to oppose Clyntahn, Rhobair is probably the best you've got. Traynair has at this point turned into a nonentity. Magwair might be able to use the guard to keep the inquisition off Duchairn's back. But he's not really an initiator.

I keep wondering how Nynian and her covert organization might play into this. Now that I think about it, she confronted Merlin with the idea of a quick trip to Zion at the end of LAMA. We've had lots of drama involving Nynian in the snippets. But no trip to Zion to this point...hummm

Don