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The Manpower Files

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Re: The Manpower Files - an exhaustive search for the MAlign
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:26 pm

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BrightSoul wrote:A couple of thoughts to add to the pot.

First off Manpower is the now discarded maskirovka of the Mesan Alignment. I would expect that the most thoroughly cleaned up data prior to departure was Manpower's. Those databases are probably nuclear slag.


No, Manpower's records weren't slagged. Cleaned up, yes, but the Alignment doesn't dare slag them. Remember, the whole point of the operation was to leave no traces. Needlessly slagged databases are a trace.

Sure, some databases could have been destroyed. Nukes were in play, they could have blown up a data center or two. However, any reasonable data protection plan for an operation that large would not be vulnerable to being taken out by a nuke. It's called having offsite backups.
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Re: The Manpower Files - an exhaustive search for the MAlign
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:43 pm

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Loren Pechtel wrote:
BrightSoul wrote:A couple of thoughts to add to the pot.

First off Manpower is the now discarded maskirovka of the Mesan Alignment. I would expect that the most thoroughly cleaned up data prior to departure was Manpower's. Those databases are probably nuclear slag.


No, Manpower's records weren't slagged. Cleaned up, yes, but the Alignment doesn't dare slag them. Remember, the whole point of the operation was to leave no traces. Needlessly slagged databases are a trace.

Sure, some databases could have been destroyed. Nukes were in play, they could have blown up a data center or two. However, any reasonable data protection plan for an operation that large would not be vulnerable to being taken out by a nuke. It's called having offsite backups.


In the same vein, another place for them to look for MAlign fingerprints is in the official files and systems of their security agencies; Cachat/Zilwicki already knew those were being manipulated. Be surprised if Zilwicki couldn't find traces, once he gets all the way back out there.

Rob
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Re: The Manpower Files - an exhaustive search for the MAlign
Post by JeffEngel   » Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:22 pm

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Armed Neo-Bob wrote:In the same vein, another place for them to look for MAlign fingerprints is in the official files and systems of their security agencies; Cachat/Zilwicki already knew those were being manipulated. Be surprised if Zilwicki couldn't find traces, once he gets all the way back out there.

Rob

Maybe. But those security agencies were set up to (1) be left behind as part of Houdini to cover Alignment tracks, so they will probably be carefully crafted to indicate that no such thing as this "Mesan Alignment" ever had a thing to do with Mesan government or businesses, and (2) be cleaned of any fingerprints that would lead to the Alignment.

So they are likely to be, as much as the Alignment could make them, both disinformative any which way they could be and clean in any other regards. There may be some indirect evidence there - patterns of discrepancies between Alignment-fabricated records on the one hand and Alignment-ignored ones on the other. But the ignored record sets are going to be anything on Mesa that the Alignment either could not risk touching or did not bother to try. Security agency records are the furthest thing from either category.

The kind of evidence they may be able to get out of that is going to be very, very tenuous and probably only plausible to people with firm reason to believe in the Alignment otherwise. I'm sure Zilwicki can make something of it, but I think he's likely to do better finding patterns in less relevant data sets, just because the ones which the Alignment had least need/ability/interest to change are going to be the most accurate, even if their use is extremely indirect.
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Re: The Manpower Files - an exhaustive search for the MAlign
Post by kenl511   » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:54 pm

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Has the MAlign closed all the backdoors into the Mesan Government Systems? Well enough to convince experienced counter hackers they have no evidentiary value? The counter hackers I knew were usually able to geographically locate a hacker using "node and routing markers" which are harder to remove than most people seem to think.

Anton or Michelle's computer experts could probably do it easily.
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Re: The Manpower Files - an exhaustive search for the MAlign
Post by SWM   » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:26 pm

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kenl511 wrote:Has the MAlign closed all the backdoors into the Mesan Government Systems? Well enough to convince experienced counter hackers they have no evidentiary value? The counter hackers I knew were usually able to geographically locate a hacker using "node and routing markers" which are harder to remove than most people seem to think.

Anton or Michelle's computer experts could probably do it easily.

What makes you think they had backdoors into the government systems? They used the front doors.
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Re: The Manpower Files - an exhaustive search for the MAlign
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:45 pm

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cthia wrote:We'd like to know just how much of an advantage the streak drive delivers compared to normal hyper travel vs wormhole junctions. The Solarian League has to travel the long way around to destinations now because of the final stage of Lacoon. Travel time for the League is now considerably longer than when they enjoyed the benefit of a junction.

What about the Mesan Alignment? Is the streak drive fast enough that it nullifies the need of wormholes?


Your citation says "reducing, for example, the transit time from the New Tuscany System to Mesa from forty-five to less than thirty-one standard days." That is roughly 60% of normal time; lacking further metrics, multiplying normal times for dispatch boats by 0.6 should give a good approximation of streak's advantage.


cthia wrote:Our question submitted to the tech department is whether the data shared by Dr. Herlander Simões is enough to identify a streak drive enabled ship upon close inspection?


Dr. Simões' information isn't necessary if you can get access to a Streak Drive; it is significantly larger than a normal hyperdrive.

cthia wrote:*And whether the diplomatic status of dispatch boats withstands de facto states of war? Something being kicked around in our legal department.


As others have pointed out, Diplomatic Immunity should survive a state of war, de facto or declared.

cthia wrote:How are they traveling? Can they risk geing spotted taking their sports car out for routine travel at risk of being spotted and scanned emissions recorded? Yet if they are traveling commercially, how?


Access to Darius is via the Felix Wormhole (guarded by the Mannerheim SDF branch of the MAN) and most transportation intel would point back to the vicinity of Mannerheim. Other routes to Darius are circuitous to confuse any attempt to trace a destination.

cthia wrote:And what of the risk of passenger manifestos?


I don't think they are very concerned about Karl MArx wannabes. :lol:
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Re: The Manpower Files - an exhaustive search for the MAlign
Post by Vince   » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:50 pm

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SWM wrote:
kenl511 wrote:Has the MAlign closed all the backdoors into the Mesan Government Systems? Well enough to convince experienced counter hackers they have no evidentiary value? The counter hackers I knew were usually able to geographically locate a hacker using "node and routing markers" which are harder to remove than most people seem to think.

Anton or Michelle's computer experts could probably do it easily.

What makes you think they had backdoors into the government systems? They used the front doors.

Jack McBryde, Scorched Earth, and his compromise of Mesan computer systems using the Mesan Alignment's backdoors into the Mesan government's couputer systems:
Torch of Freedom, Chapter 54 wrote:The explosion wasn't triggered until almost three seconds after McBryde spoke the final words, and during those three seconds, the sabotage programs from his chip had time to upload themselves out of the Center's computers. Not many of them, compared to his original plans, but one hell of a lot more than any of the Alignment's cybersecurity teams had ever imagined might come at them from inside their primary firewalls. Or might carry with them so many perfectly valid access and authorization codes.
Once the first tier of the network started going down, watchdog systems sprang into action, of course, but not quickly enough to prevent some fairly awesome destruction. Very few of the major subsystems escaped altogether unscathed.
The military was much less severely affected, for several reasons. First, because by the very nature of things the military preferred standalone systems wherever possible. Second, because Alignment Security was very carefully partitioned off from the official Mesan secret services and the star system's official military forces, which meant access points were strictly limited. Third, because in the case of the military, the gateways which existed were under the control of the admirals of the clandestine Mesan Alignment Navy, and without much more time to work with, McBryde's cybernetic saboteurs were unable to wiggle their way through. Fourth, because McBryde had possessed nowhere near as much access to the MAN's authorization codes. And, fifth, because there simply wasn't time for his programs to get through before the Gama Center—and its computers—ceased to exist.
But there were far more links from Alignment Security's primary net to most of the other, openly maintained civilian intelligence agencies, and those were under the control of the Alignment, not the agencies which didn't even know they'd been penetrated. Indeed, they were specifically set up to allow Alignment Security to sneak in and out of the "official" databanks tracelessly—to co-opt those banks' data without anyone outside Alignment Security's ever being the wiser. The people who had designed the system had always realized that all those backdoors hopelessly compromised the official agencies' security, but since the Alignment was the one doing the compromising, they hadn't lost much sleep over the thought.
As it happened, it still took precious time for McBryde's programs to squirm through, yet they got through much more quickly than they had in the military's case. Not only that, but he'd prioritized his attacks carefully.
Only one attack fully succeeded, even so, but it was the one upon which he'd lavished the most care and effort, and he wasn't taking any chances on simply erasing the data he was after. Oh, no. His attack came equipped with the specific security codes for the computers in question, triggering the command sequence which reformatted their molecular circuitry itself. Turned those computers' memories into solid, inert chunks of crystalline alloy from which Saint Peter himself could not have recovered one single scrap of data. And because the man who'd prepared that attack came from so high inside Security itself, he'd known where all the backups were maintained . . . and how to reach them, too.
In that one successful attack, over ninety percent of all Mesan records concerning the Ballroom—those of the "official" agencies and the Alignment's alike—simply vanished. And since Mesa still considered Torch an extension of the Ballroom, all the Alignment's data on Torch went with it.
All gone, except for whatever scraps survived in partial form in other locales. No doubt there were enough of those scraps to reconstitute much of that data in the fullness of time, yet it was a task which would take literally years . . . and never be anything remotely like complete.
The day after Scorched Earth, Jeremy X himself could have walked openly down the streets of any Mesan city, giving DNA samples at every corner, without anyone being the wiser, unless he was spotted by one of the very few Mesans who'd encountered him personally and survived the experience.
* * *
Among the other cybernetic systems which were damaged were those of Mesan customs. The damage was . . . odd, and seemingly quirky.
E.D. Trimm stared at the main screen in her operations center, unable to believe what she was seeing. All the many ships were still shown. They could still track any of them, whether approaching or leaving or in orbit. Presumably, if they scrambled furiously, they could open up manual lines of communications if any of the ships was in danger of colliding with another.
But the rest of the information was lost. Gone. Vanished.
"Which ship is which?" she half-wailed.
"I can still figure out tonnages," said Gansükh Blomqvist. "I . . . think."
"Oh, wonderful. My day is complete."
Italics are the author's, boldface, underlined and red colored text is my emphasis.
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Re: The Manpower Files - an exhaustive search for the MAlign
Post by Theemile   » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:28 am

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cthia wrote:
cthia wrote:How are they traveling? Can they risk geing spotted taking their sports car out for routine travel at risk of being spotted and scanned emissions recorded? Yet if they are traveling commercially, how?



Due to the distances and times, there really would be no correspondence between stars about the travel and departure times of ships - if a ship does not show back at it's home within it's schedule or disappears with an expected cargo, there may be a follow up, but other than that it really does not make sense, because any communication would be record, not a notification.

The only thing a Streak boat has to worry about is a round trip between 2 stars. Returning to Beowulf from Visigoth 3 days faster than possible is hard to explain. The solution is to use longer circuliar trips with multiple ships, so the Beowulf-Visigoth ship continues on to Katarina, while a second ship returns to Beowulf. The message loop is still almost as fast as if the original ship returned, but no one but the people it is communicating with would be the wiser.
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RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: The Manpower Files - an exhaustive search for the MAlign
Post by Brigade XO   » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:48 am

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For operational security, Manpower probably routinely used cover desitinations for ships Mesa and it's assorted major logistic points in the shipment of genetic slaves. You leave Mesa and go to any one of several places -per the record - but beyond jusing the Visigoth Wormhole to get in that direction, none of the records would be correct.

[there becomes a HUGE challange of payments/allocation of expences for the crews and ships involved because you need some level of accuracy in paying people and subcontractors but it is possible if you work at it]

The actual ship logs would be interesting along with the maintenance records and expenses/receipts for work done/supplies purchased. Same with the transfer of funds for payment of slaves and other things delivered. Again, you can set up multiple sets of records and pray that none of the originals become compromised. Having a slaver captured and not able to obliterate it's actual logs and records is a major concern.

Houdini moves the balance of the people the Alignment considers necessary off to at least Darius. You have to guess that the majority of the Alignment production needs have long since been duplicated or outright moved to Darius and other locations which are now fully staffed.

You don't use Streak Drives between non-Alignment locations where it can be tracked. At worst, you doctor your records to change the departure time and place before you go somewhere. All of that running around in Talbot and related areas does NOT mean giving you actual point of origin (for the inbound) trip to local authorities. When you leave a system- if you tell them where you are going- you head out in the "normal" flight path out of system for the normal route to X but then change once you go to hyper.
While not impossible, tracking back the course of any given ship is going to be a nightmare. Even if they don't have several lies in the officlal logs (and hence local records) you have to either send questions or people back along the track and are probably going to run into some reluctance of local authorities to provide that type of information. Presuming that what they give you- which they got from the ships themselves- was not originaly false.

Recall that the Alignment has at its disposal a lot of people and experience in essentialy smuggleing slaves from point of production to points of sale and thorugh any manner of laberenth of midpoints. Look at what the Houdini plan was doing to get people off Mesa as far as shipping them out to lose them in changes of ships, variations of where they actually went etc.

The gross volumes of records for Manpower and subsidiary/related companies may indicate that there was a lot more production and business going on than can be accounted for in final sales and expences but finding what was actual done is harder. The slaves are not typically going to be trackable to final destination and the payments are going to be laundered.

Besides, even if surviving member of Manpower and related companies knew about various high-security or off the books operations withing those companies, the actual records should be so much plasma and shattered quipment now with few- if any- of the employees alive to be questioned.

Perhaps if Manticore's ONI, with the help of others, gathered years of records of ships emission signatures (combined with the more mundane info such as name/registry/travel history and filed destinations and crew (with positive ID) you MIGHT be able to track down various ships used as slavers or participated in operations (such as Abrasanover-spelling) in the Talbot area plans and get some idea of where they had been as points in time. Putting that together into something usable is more challanging than gathering the info. Seeing a warship in Talbot catching the same emissions off "different" freighters when they are dealing with a very limited number of places and happening to be patroling in the same circuit as their target when they area already concerned with who is showing upis not the same as demanding records from hundreds of star systems and wormhole termini astro control stations then looking for a pattern in emissions and ship traffic.

At this point all the information the Alignment needed to move to Darius is probably there. The remaining/surviving records on Mesa are going to be a gigantic mass of data with mostly holes or gaps where things have been destroyed or just erased (very carefully eraced and covered over) so as wipe the trail as if it had never been.

I would suspect that ALL of the Oyster Bay ships and weapons were built at Darius. The Alignment would want to have all of it's shipyards plus component manufacture at the Darius system. Even if they were buying parts (normal parts) from places like Mannheim though shell companies and appeared to be little more than people buying spaires or components for ships and stations, they would need to have the bulk of their production FOR EVERYTHING at Darius. Sure, they could have been ordering normal ships from SL locations to build up capacity in things like regular transport but they have to have all the capacity to build, modify, repair and advance the designers at Darius. They might even have a fleet base at one of the systems in the shadow wormhole net rather than at Darius to keep people away from the I-don't-know-I'm-a-slave population of Darius.

I also suspect that by this time, the termini on the shadow side of the wormhole network leading to Darius are getting at least forts along with BC and above sized ships defences and minefield.
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Re: The Manpower Files - an exhaustive search for the MAlign
Post by JohnRoth   » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:50 am

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Theemile wrote:
cthia wrote:How are they traveling? Can they risk geing spotted taking their sports car out for routine travel at risk of being spotted and scanned emissions recorded? Yet if they are traveling commercially, how?



Due to the distances and times, there really would be no correspondence between stars about the travel and departure times of ships - if a ship does not show back at it's home within it's schedule or disappears with an expected cargo, there may be a follow up, but other than that it really does not make sense, because any communication would be record, not a notification.

The only thing a Streak boat has to worry about is a round trip between 2 stars. Returning to Beowulf from Visigoth 3 days faster than possible is hard to explain. The solution is to use longer circuliar trips with multiple ships, so the Beowulf-Visigoth ship continues on to Katarina, while a second ship returns to Beowulf. The message loop is still almost as fast as if the original ship returned, but no one but the people it is communicating with would be the wiser.


That's only true if you're looking at records from one location. Correlate the records on both ends and a streak drive ship will stand out. It's highly likely that ONI will be doing exactly that for places they've got records. And the impending takeover of both the Visigoth and Mesa wormhole termini will give them a lot of records to correlate.
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