First Landings

cthia wrote:
I'm having severe difficulty getting through Cauldron of Ghosts. I'll eventually finish it. I don't like leaving books unread.

I admit i have found the "torch" books harder to read then almost all of RFC's other works (really struggled with Excalibur alternative, my hardest weber to read ever) then again I struggled with 1632 which was another Eric Flint collab.

cthia wrote:Was the approximate years that it took to realize that their Trojan horse of a planet was killing them ever given?

They landed on Grayson in 988 PD. Austin Grayson died in 998. In the aftermath of his death, Hugh Yanakov and Oliver Mayhew convinced people that it was not all technology that was evil, only the way technology was being used on Old Earth. So we can assume that it became obvious within ten years, or they would not have felt the need to revert to technology.

As far as the amount of Time it would have taken to realize the planet would kill them, that would have been obvious the first time they did an air quality study. After all, the effects of heavy metal poisoning are well known today. The problem was, they had nowhere else to go.

KNick wrote:As far as the amount of Time it would have taken to realize the planet would kill them, that would have been obvious the first time they did an air quality study. After all, the effects of heavy metal poisoning are well known today. The problem was, they had nowhere else to go.

That's true for realizing the planet was deadly. But it took longer to realize they weren't beating it. Apparently, Austin Grayson never did believe that. It was not until his death that Grayson started doing what was necessary to survive, instead of what the original idealism said would suffice with God's grace.

SWM wrote:

KNick wrote:As far as the amount of Time it would have taken to realize the planet would kill them, that would have been obvious the first time they did an air quality study. After all, the effects of heavy metal poisoning are well known today. The problem was, they had nowhere else to go.

That's true for realizing the planet was deadly. But it took longer to realize they weren't beating it. Apparently, Austin Grayson never did believe that. It was not until his death that Grayson started doing what was necessary to survive, instead of what the original idealism said would suffice with God's grace.

Not quite, Grayson gave his blessing on the Grayson gen-mod before his death according to HoS.

saber964 wrote:

SWM wrote:That's true for realizing the planet was deadly. But it took longer to realize they weren't beating it. Apparently, Austin Grayson never did believe that. It was not until his death that Grayson started doing what was necessary to survive, instead of what the original idealism said would suffice with God's grace.

Not quite, Grayson gave his blessing on the Grayson gen-mod before his death according to HoS.

But that was all secret. So it's still plausible (correct me if I'm missing anything, please) that Austin Grayson wasn't able to be a public part of revising Grayson's views on technology that broadly. "Not able" possibly in the sense of not willing, not psychologically able, but also (more likely, I think) in the sense of not being able to sell that as entirely his view to people he'd led here as a simple-living messiah. As much as he may have given the change his private, or low-key anyway, blessings, it may have taken successors to offer it as a revision and retain Austin Grayson's image as a unifying symbol.

KNick wrote:As far as the amount of Time it would have taken to realize the planet would kill them, that would have been obvious the first time they did an air quality study. After all, the effects of heavy metal poisoning are well known today. The problem was, they had nowhere else to go.

I considered that during my first read. I'm a Civil Engineer - Lab Manager, Environmental department.

I didn't think they had even bothered with any such tests. They certainly would have had access to a mass spectrometer as well, to test the soils. But they shunned technology as greatly as any anti-tech religion could. Besides, Tester himself led them there! Certainly it wouldn't be poisonous.

cthia wrote:
Tester himself led them there! Certainly it wouldn't be poisonous.

Unless Tester had grown weary of a group of people who were disrespecting his wonderful gifts of science and technology and decided to either get them to repent or get rid of them altogether...

Don

Jonathan_S wrote:

Theemile wrote:
The most interesting would probably be Beowulf - it was the first Human colony outside of Sol and the first time mankind was truly on their own, and free of Earth's influences guidance and support.

Every Sol colony was within hours of radio time of Earth, so Earth's Experts and knowledge base could be queried for any problem, and orders for any part could be made for the next ship (even if it wasn't scheduled for years in the future. Beowulf was 80 years aways from earth (as the conversation goes) and congratulation's of a baby's birth could arrive at his deathbed after a long life.

So Beowulf only had what they brought - I hope they packed right.

There's probably some other (unknown to us) planet for that early colonization phase that had tougher terraforming problems than Beowulf. Though unless someone really screwed up not as bad as trying to colonize Mars.

But by the time the Manticore colony ship was launched you had hyper capable scout ships doing planetary surveys before you set out. So you had more information on the target planets than even the most powerful orbital observatory could have provided. So the risks and challenges are somewhat reduced.

Then by the time the Manticore colony arrived hyper travel had become safe and routine enough to expect the occasional ship to stop by. So if you'd really forgotten something you had a hope of importing it. (Plus getting general info dumps on the background state of technology from the Core worlds.


All of which is a long winded way of saying that it is probably that early (and to date not really explored wishing the books or short stories) early colonization phase that seems most likely to provide the kind of background cithia seems to be looking for.

Adding to this, over time, Colonization became a business segment unto itself.

A early colony may be buying stock Ford Trucks and Vans, John Deer Farm Tractors, Catapiller bulldozers and earth movers, Hitachi Generators, etc etc. All because they got better prices here, or could only find certain capabilities there. But this requires dozens of spare parts specturms which leads to extra mass, and possibilities critical failures of essential tools in the future before industry starts up in earnest or as experienced technicians die off.

Where as by the Time of Manticore's expedition, companies may have a Colony special - standardized engines and parts in vehicles and tractors, designed for robustness and ease of maintenance over top end features.

Reports will have come back from successful and failed expeditions and their failures and pitfalls will be known - and companies will take those reports into account and will have standardized packs of hardware, tools and prefab everything to make the 1st couple of years the easiest possible, with the most contingencies planned for.

Sometimes those reports will give those suttler companies the power to use scare tactics - "See what happened to Ceti Alpha V when their didn't take a Paper edition of the Encyclopedia Briticania! Save your Children! Buy an Encyclopedia - and 45 crates of Toilet Paper."

Buying a license to produce our goods on your colony, I could see this as a major part of big businesses, licensing updates for products! We just collect our monthly fee from the accounts you set up on departure. We send you digital copies of plans and formulas. Hey maximum income stream for minimal production! And we charge you for the years you are enroute, too!