HFQ ARC dead tree on ebay over $220

McGuiness wrote:

SWM wrote:Print Advance Reader Copies are clearly marked NOT FOR RESALE.

Sorry, I can't seem to manage to write a short post not matter how I try. I just hope I manage to keep it interesting!

If these ARCs are indeed labelled "Not for Resale," the people who are auctioning the ARCs on Ebay are actually in violation of the law

Not according to the link ZBar has contributed upthread! I can't see why you are so ticked off about this. If people want to read a pirated copy, I understand they can get one a few hours after publication, fulfilling that demand some weeks early isn't losing the author a penny. I don't see why you assume someone buying an ARC is someone who intends to pirate it, especially given the story upthread about RFC selling some off himself, and getting considerably more than the quoted EBay price for them. The Publishers just have problems with the idea of anyone else making money from 'their' book, i.e they somehow don't get that when they give the book away they cease to own it. It's just greed. If they could stop you reselling books you had bought retail, they would. It's rather like a certain biiig computer company which thinks they, not you, should decide what software you are entitled to run on 'their' machine.

Besides all of which, McGuiness, the books in the Baen monthly bundle are regularly available as ebooks 3 or 4 weeks before the hardcover publishing date. According to your assumptions that should be costing the authors, and certainly Baen, a bundle. Given they have continued the practice for years, I doubt that is so.

I LOVE the fact that Baen makes eARCs available months before the actual book's release. I just finished "A call to arms," and it was quite interesting to see the background and the actual Battle of Manticore. Yes, it's also mostly in "Beginnings, Worlds of Honor 6," although the battle is longer and a bit more interesting. At times I think Timothy Zahn is aiming for a young adult audience, so the book doesn't read like something RFC would have written, despite having a main evil character who is very much like the guy fomenting rebellions in COG. I get the feeling that RFC outlined the battle, then made the final edit of that part, but it's just my guess since Timothy Zahn's hand is clearly evident during the battle. It's exciting and worth reading, although not much really happens until the the hyper footprints appear. Then I find myself wishing "I sure wish these guys had Ghost Rider and missile pods like Honor did..."

However, once I get an eARC onto my grubby computer, I am OFF that forum until after the publication date, which means that you simply don't see much of me on the Honorverse forums despite my nomes de plume.(Yes, both of them, since I'm Nimitz13 on Eric Flint's site, where most of the discussion on each snippet used to take place.) Drak is snippeting "A call to arms" there now.

So one major thing RFC accomplished by doing the snippets himself and moving them into the forums of the books being snippeted rather than the "Snippets" forum was to get us to discuss the snippets more in depth here in his own Safehold forum, which makes a lot more sense than a bunch of us posting on Eric Flint's site about the snippets Drak posted 3 times per week at midnight my time, almost always within 10 minutes of the expected time.

I'm glad we finally got a new and LONG snippet, but I STILL think RFC ought to turn the snippeting over to Drak again, simply because it's clear that his writing schedule and real life are interfering with any sort of regular posting schedule, although I'll admit that I NEVER complain about getting an entire chapter at once! However, we tend to post a lot more when we get regular, smaller snippets, and I've started dropping by only every two weeks or so to see if a new snippet has been posted, then depending on my schedule I might make a flurry of posts on the forums, and then I'm GONE - for another week or so until RFC finally has time to post another snippet.

As much as I'm frustrated with Tor's refusal to put out an eARC early, the fact that they don't means that all of you get to read my conjectures of what's going to happen in HFQ until the date of publication - after which we're under a massive SPOILER ban for the following month, which I consider fair, it's just hard to remember.

ummm...

Given that Tom Doherty is still a partner in Baen Books [what, you didn't know it was privately held?], was a good friend of Jim's [which is in large part why Jim was able to negotiate the Safehold deal for RFC] and was watching over Jim's shoulder while he organised the venture into e-books [which is why Tor cut a deal to sell its titles via WebScriptions just in time for OAR to be the one and only title to appear in that venue], I don't think Tor is all that unaware of ways to make or lose money on the internet.

Unfortunately, Tom isn't his own master [which is why OAR was the only Tor book in WebScriptions] and it's taken him a long time to persuade the suits that he knows what he's talking about. Still, I'd bet against him not watching those auctions - heck, I wouldn't bet against the source of those ARCs being Tor - and probably using the bidding record to gauge the final print order for HFQ

McGuiness wrote:I LOVE the fact that Baen makes eARCs available months before the actual book's release. I just finished "A call to arms," and it was quite interesting to see the background and the actual Battle of Manticore. Yes, it's also mostly in "Beginnings, Worlds of Honor 6," although the battle is longer and a bit more interesting. At times I think Timothy Zahn is aiming for a young adult audience, so the book doesn't read like something RFC would have written, despite having a main evil character who is very much like the guy fomenting rebellions in COG. I get the feeling that RFC outlined the battle, then made the final edit of that part, but it's just my guess since Timothy Zahn's hand is clearly evident during the battle. It's exciting and worth reading, although not much really happens until the the hyper footprints appear. Then I find myself wishing "I sure wish these guys had Ghost Rider and missile pods like Honor did..."

However, once I get an eARC onto my grubby computer, I am OFF that forum until after the publication date, which means that you simply don't see much of me on the Honorverse forums despite my nomes de plume.(Yes, both of them, since I'm Nimitz13 on Eric Flint's site, where most of the discussion on each snippet used to take place.) Drak is snippeting "A call to arms" there now.

So one major thing RFC accomplished by doing the snippets himself and moving them into the forums of the books being snippeted rather than the "Snippets" forum was to get us to discuss the snippets more in depth here in his own Safehold forum, which makes a lot more sense than a bunch of us posting on Eric Flint's site about the snippets Drak posted 3 times per week at midnight my time, almost always within 10 minutes of the expected time.

I'm glad we finally got a new and LONG snippet, but I STILL think RFC ought to turn the snippeting over to Drak again, simply because it's clear that his writing schedule and real life are interfering with any sort of regular posting schedule, although I'll admit that I NEVER complain about getting an entire chapter at once! However, we tend to post a lot more when we get regular, smaller snippets, and I've started dropping by only every two weeks or so to see if a new snippet has been posted, then depending on my schedule I might make a flurry of posts on the forums, and then I'm GONE - for another week or so until RFC finally has time to post another snippet.

As much as I'm frustrated with Tor's refusal to put out an eARC early, the fact that they don't means that all of you get to read my conjectures of what's going to happen in HFQ until the date of publication - after which we're under a massive SPOILER ban for the following month, which I consider fair, it's just hard to remember.

ZVar wrote:

Print Advance Reader Copies are clearly marked NOT FOR RESALE

Just so you know, they can print anything on them they want. But it is legal to re-sell a physical item because of the First Sale Doctrine. Now if it was an e-arc, or reviewers copy that they are under contract that is one thing, but to sell a book is perfectly fine.
If you want to read a bit here is a good place to start: http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2011/01/07/132744291/for-promotional-use-only-not-for-resale-oh-yes-it-is

Sorry guys - I actually wrote this reply DAYS ago, before I even saw that snippet #28 had finally been posted, and I thought I'd posted this. It was ready to post with one minor change (I edit too much!) and would have changed your reactions to my original post quite a bit.

I stand by every word you're about to read about Tom Clancy's murder by the way...

All right, having read that article, I have no problem with people selling ARCs of RFC's books on Ebay - except for the possible lost sale of a hardback when the book comes out. On the other hand, a fan who's hardcore enough to spend $400 on an ARC probably has RFC's entire series, so he/she is likely to buy the hardback anyway. (And is quite possibly a lurker or contributor to this site! Confess!)

However, if someone scans the ARC and posts it on the internet, a la "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows" then Tor should indeed use their lawyers to smash that person into oblivion, since that isn't reselling something that you own, it's copying and reselling something that you own, which is clearly prohibited by the court's decision.

That's why I'd suggest stealing a page from a Tom Clancy novel I read years ago before the government murdered him. Yes, I'm serious, he was poisoned by something exotic that stopped his heart, then his body was held for five days until it was too late to find any poisons in the autopsy. Not one bit suspicious, move along, nothing to see here... A great author who will be missed - and his latest series still had several books to go! Not germane to this discussion though, so I'll get back to Clancy's clever ploy...

In novel I'm referring to, each copy of a classified document had several unique changes made to it, so any copy leaked to the press could be traced back to the person who originally received it. Make some subtle changes here and there in the novel, and Tor would know which of their ARCs had been copied and given away to the world. Better yet, edit each page so it has a serial number at a random spot in the text, and that would pretty much end any temptation for anyone to scan their ARC to the internet. (I can think of several other ways to make each ARC distinct without tipping off the reader, so I'm sure Tor can as well - a unique watermark for each ARC would do the job quite nicely.)

The next part was written before I saw that Snippet #28 had finally arrived after a 3 week wait, making it the second snippet to be posted in seven weeks. Granted those snippets were a chapter long in an effort for RFC to repay us for having to wait so long between snippets, so to quote Ron Weasley "Mind you, we learned loads!" Extra credit for the first person who can cite which book and who he was talking to!

For my sanity, I wish the book was coming out in the next couple of weeks as originally scheduled. I also wish Drak was in charge of posting the snippets, since real life seems to be catching up with RFC to the point that he's unable or distracted from posting regular snippets. I'd be happier checking in 3 times a week to read a few paragraphs than dropping by once a month to read a chapter. The discussion of what's going to happen is what makes these forums fun, and that's suffering due to the dearth of new snippets, as exciting as the chapter-long snippets we've received weeks apart have been.

So despite the fun occasional comments RFC adds to the snippets, and the cliffhanger scene changes like "What the HELL is THAT?" (Which I fully enjoyed, and he just did it to us again!) I'd have a better experience with the snippets if Drak had the job. Plus he could lord the snerk collar over us in his unique, insufferable way...

I sincerely DO realize that RFC may well be reaching the limit of how much of the book was going to be snippeted, based on the delay in the publication schedule. If the snippets are further apart simply because there isn't much left to snippet, I can understand and accept that, but it would be nice to KNOW that's the case.

Meanwhile, I'm waiting as fast as I can...

I sincerely DO realize that RFC may well be reaching the limit of how much of the book was going to be snippeted, based on the delay in the publication schedule. If the snippets are further apart simply because there isn't much left to snippet, I can understand and accept that, but it would be nice to KNOW that's the case.

Snippet 28 is about 20% of the way through the book. So, yeah, not a problem.

McGuiness, I agree entirely about the preferability of regular short snippets to irregular longer ones. I have become much less engaged with the forum and the story due to the current practice. It would be easier for everyone if Drak was given the job again, but it might spoil some of RFCs fun.

I don't think the recent lack of snippets has anything to do with running out of material, not when the last snippet was about 4500 words. (Early snippets were about 1500) I am getting a bit concerned that we are getting to the point where I will get the book and be disappointed about the amount of new material left to read. We have had about 69,400 words so far. I'm guessing we might get about 33% in snippets by the time of publication if RFC keeps up the recent schedule.

Just seen Duckk's post! That certainly would be a very different scenario. Can I just ask if you are sure about that Duckk? It would mean the novel was about 345,000 words in 533 pages, 75 of the advertised 608 being reserved for Characters, glossary etc as usual. It seems like a lot to me.

Drak is close as to the percentage of pages in the book snippeted. We are a little over a 150 pages into a book that is now listed as 784 pages on Amazon. Taking out the maps and especially the appendices may get it down 650-700, but still less than 25%.

Just seen Duckk's post! That certainly would be a very different scenario. Can I just ask if you are sure about that Duckk? It would mean the novel was about 345,000 words in 533 pages, 75 of the advertised 608 being reserved for Characters, glossary etc as usual. It seems like a lot to me.

How sure do you think I am?

ksandgren wrote:Drak is close as to the percentage of pages in the book snippeted. We are a little over a 150 pages into a book that is now listed as 784 pages on Amazon. Taking out the maps and especially the appendices may get it down 650-700, but still less than 25%.

Rubs hands in melodramatic delight That's different, then. Amazon UK is still listing it as 608 pages.

Duckk, obviously you have seen the book. The question was really had you done the math. One of those times I'm glad to be wrong.