What ship?

munroburton wrote:The spacing problem is even worse if one accepts a length-wise docking proposition - the lineart in HoS suggests that there's a maximum of 18 LAC bays on the Minotaur. 18 * 72m length of Shrike/Ferret adds up to 1296. With no spacing between them.

The Minotaur's total hull length is 1131m.

In the Minotaur lineart, there's also a LAC possibly shown for scale. If so, it's at least twice as long as the hatches are.

Ah well, I must be misremembering.

saber964 wrote:Query what ship was ever built with 50cm guns. The only ship that comes even remotely close was the German H44 design study with 50cm/20in guns and the Japanese who had theoretical design for a 60cm gun. The largest guns ever put to sea was HMS Furious and Yamato class both with 46cm/18in guns. Also the German army of both world wars had very large railway guns.

That was a miscalculation. Carried a toe when I should have added it.

18 in guns (even one in a turret) on a (large) light cruiser hull are more than enough reason to have converted Furious into an aircraft carrier, even if they did it one end of the hull at a time. She must have shaken everything in the hull to pieces when she fired her main guns.

Fox2! wrote:
That was a miscalculation. Carried a toe when I should have added it.

18 in guns (even one in a turret) on a (large) light cruiser hull are more than enough reason to have converted Furious into an aircraft carrier, even if they did it one end of the hull at a time. She must have shaken everything in the hull to pieces when she fired her main guns.

The 'large light cruiser' designation was an Admiralty cheat to get past a Treasury ban on building anything larger than a light cruiser - much like the RMN's Admiralty called their latest heavy cruiser the Edward Saganami-C to fool Janacek, Houseman et al into thinking that it was just an upgrade to an existing design rather than the completely new class it actually was. At 19,000 tons, Furious could easily withstand the recoil of a pair of 18-inch guns.

Ah. Didn't check the displacement. 19ktons is ... Significant.

Once more, the uniforms having to outsmart the civilians. Or, breaking the bonds of civilian control.

Dafmeister wrote:The 'large light cruiser' designation was an Admiralty cheat to get past a Treasury ban on building anything larger than a light cruiser - much like the RMN's Admiralty called their latest heavy cruiser the Edward Saganami-C to fool Janacek, Houseman et al into thinking that it was just an upgrade to an existing design rather than the completely new class it actually was.

I wonder how much fooling Janacek himself needed. Gutting the Navy spending was something he realized was necessary for the political coalition of which his CA was a part, and something he figured they could afford given cousin Sonja Hemphill's incomparable technology. But I don't think he really liked gutting the RMN, and a Saganami-C was still an awesome cruiser (and he loved cruisers) and an embodiment of Manticoran technological superiority. Heck, with DDM's, and with his confidence no one else would possibly build MDM podlayers, those Saganami-C's could possibly stand up to (with some numerical advantage) the crude, traditional wallers he figured anyone else could build.

I don't mean to suggest he wasn't corrupt, criminal, and prone to thinking that didn't take into account unpleasant truths. I just suggest his list of intellectual and moral vices and delusions wasn't identical to Houseman's or High Ridge's.

JeffEngel wrote: I just suggest his list of intellectual and moral vices and delusions wasn't identical to Houseman's or High Ridge's.

Given that Houseman is now resident on Mannheim, a member of the RF, what are the odds of his being a MA sleeper? Or the other members of his extended family?

that is an intresting point. ship designs below BC were what he always thought the RMN should be building. with a core of SD (p) and the (or so he thought) chances of anyone else building any aside from the idiotic graysons he was free to indulge his desire to reform the navy back into what he though it should be, a commerce protection force.

what meant lots of new DD, LC and even some CAs if any pirates really got uppity and the new avalon's and wolfhound's couldn't cope.

Fox2! wrote:

JeffEngel wrote: I just suggest his list of intellectual and moral vices and delusions wasn't identical to Houseman's or High Ridge's.

Given that Houseman is now resident on Mannheim, a member of the RF, what are the odds of his being a MA sleeper? Or the other members of his extended family?

He's back to work at Mannheim University, on Manticore. Mannerheim is the RF system. I don't think he's smart enough to be an Alignment sleeper, and the rest of his family hasn't seemed that either.

Fox2! wrote:

JeffEngel wrote: I just suggest his list of intellectual and moral vices and delusions wasn't identical to Houseman's or High Ridge's.

Given that Houseman is now resident on Mannheim, a member of the RF, what are the odds of his being a MA sleeper? Or the other members of his extended family?

Houseman is at Mannheim University, Manticore. You are thinking of MannERheim; Houseman is not on Mannerheim.

JeffEngel wrote:

Dafmeister wrote:The 'large light cruiser' designation was an Admiralty cheat to get past a Treasury ban on building anything larger than a light cruiser - much like the RMN's Admiralty called their latest heavy cruiser the Edward Saganami-C to fool Janacek, Houseman et al into thinking that it was just an upgrade to an existing design rather than the completely new class it actually was.

I wonder how much fooling Janacek himself needed. Gutting the Navy spending was something he realized was necessary for the political coalition of which his CA was a part, and something he figured they could afford given cousin Sonja Hemphill's incomparable technology. But I don't think he really liked gutting the RMN, and a Saganami-C was still an awesome cruiser (and he loved cruisers) and an embodiment of Manticoran technological superiority. Heck, with DDM's, and with his confidence no one else would possibly build MDM podlayers, those Saganami-C's could possibly stand up to (with some numerical advantage) the crude, traditional wallers he figured anyone else could build.

I don't mean to suggest he wasn't corrupt, criminal, and prone to thinking that didn't take into account unpleasant truths. I just suggest his list of intellectual and moral vices and delusions wasn't identical to Houseman's or High Ridge's.

His major fault was that He, and his cronies, created a situation where anyone with a differing policy or thought was punished and removed from their position.

This created a feedback loop in intel and strategy, where the important issues were not being seen, because the relevant questions were not being asked and sources of intel not looked at. "Inconvenient" data was removed from graphs and left out of reports because underlings learned they would be punished by their superiors if they reported it.

Pat Givens was able to step in and find the intel she needed in a short period of time - it existed, but due to Janacheck's management practices, it was ignored.